Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Showcase your artistic works here for all to admire and critique. All forms of art are welcome.
Forum rules
The purpose of this forum is to allow individuals to post their artwork for admiration and critique; it is NOT for promoting your comic (see Self-Promotion). It is strictly forbidden to create a topic with the sole purpose of linking to your comic.

Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby edward raise » March 11th, 2017, 12:43 am

Hi everyone! I need help for helping the viewer understand what i draw, there's seems to be a little problem how people around me perceive my comic that i never thought could be perceived :| .

For example:
http://stageofbattle.smackjeeves.com/co ... 2308/pg-1/
In this page, my little brother perceived the lowest row of the grid that the girl is running, while my little sister can't really tell what's the girl is doing.

What I intended on the page is showing the girl sleeping in her room while the traffic outside is disturbing her.

I can understand why the highest grid could cause confusion because background isn't my forte,
but i can't tell why they perceive that way.

Any tips or opinion is greatly appreciated. :)

If anyone have some spare time, any tips on drawing background could really help a long way.
(i attached some of my latest sketch of attempt to improve my background).
Thanks :oops:
Attachments
bg prac 2.jpg
This time i focus on improving composition and distance eff, which I lacked it
bg prac 2.jpg (85.64 KiB) Viewed 1326 times
bg prac 1.jpg
This time i focus on improving composition and distance eff, which I lacked it
(91.77 KiB) Not downloaded yet
Last edited by edward raise on March 11th, 2017, 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
edward raise
 
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2nd, 2016, 6:06 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby eishiya » March 11th, 2017, 8:10 am

It would help if you described what you intended with the problem panels. That way, people can suggest what could be changed. Without knowing what they're meant to be, you're just risking people misinterpreting them again and giving you the wrong feedback.

Try to use thinner lines for things further away, and thicker lines for things up close.
In the sketch, is the gray meant to represent distance (atmospheric perspective)? If so, it's confusing because you have lighter (distant?) objects overlapping darker (nearby?) ones.

Make use of overlapping to show depth. Objects in front should overlap objects behind them. For example, have the smaller air balloon overlap the tower next to it, so that it's clear that it's in front of it. Have the dark foreground building overlap the whale(?), etc. Don't be afraid to obscure parts of important objects! As long as you don't hide too much, they'll read well, and you'll have a much better sense of depth in the images.

On the page you linked, I can't tell what you intended at all, but hopefully I can offer some feedback anyway:
You're using straight, parallel lines to shade and make gradients. These lines read like speedlines, and they don't really read like shadows. That might be why someone thought the character was running in the bottom panels. Try using hatching that's perpendicular to the direction of the gradient instead, and perhaps use shorter strokes.
Have the hatching follow the form of the objects. This'll give them a better sense of form, as well as help the hatching not look like speedlines. Example.
Try not to rely on thin line so much when creating details like folds. Make use of larger solid shapes, like you did with the clouds and airships in panel 1.

Lastly, when you shade, focus more on shading the general form of the object/character. Details should be secondary and should not overpower the form. This'll help the art read more clearly. Part of this means you need to think about your light source(s) and the form they affect. For example, in the bottom left panel, her arm shadow doesn't connect to her back shadow. How is that possible, given the human form, and the light source? That disconnected shadow makes her arm look broken at best, and makes the contents of that panel unclear as a [person] at worst.
Image
User avatar
eishiya
 
Posts: 9267
Joined: December 5th, 2009, 11:17 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby edward raise » March 11th, 2017, 9:34 pm

Hey eishiya, thanks for replying, what I intended on the page is showing the girl sleeping in her room while the traffic outside is disturbing her.

Thanks for the tips, greatly appreciated, I'll try not to shower the viewers with details that is obscuring them :oops:
I think I'll research how people draw certain objects before drawing them, might help viewers to identify my drawings.

Edited my message to include the intended scene.
User avatar
edward raise
 
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2nd, 2016, 6:06 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby JoKeR » March 12th, 2017, 7:25 am

I did read your comic up to this page ...and ...It's really hard to tell what happens at all.
Your lines are too thick and your shading is too dark and eating away any visible contrast. Only on the also hard to read conversation could I tell what is supposed to happen.
My suggestions would be to try a new approach with your shading technique because all this dark and soft digital brush strokes overlapping the outlines and make everything defuse.
And, What eishiya said is right, shading with long strokes is seen as movement.

Let us look at a pure outline page without shading. Can you show one of the older pages?
Image

-=: jokercologne.deviantart twitter.com/JoKeRcologne joker-cologne.tumblr :=-

Expect the unexpected. Never take anything for granted. Scrutinise everything. Be open-minded. Learn.
User avatar
JoKeR
 
Posts: 2658
Joined: June 10th, 2010, 3:42 am
Location: A City with a huge cathedral

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby edward raise » March 12th, 2017, 8:01 am

Hi JoKeR, thanks for replying:).

I'm planning to change my shading style using advice you guys gave me, but i think there's problem in my composition too since you both had a hard time reading my comic... :(

eishiya told me about it before, but I guess my composition still lacking something.
(Even though i make sure the textbox guide through the viewer along with other things :? )

I attached some of my outlined pages without shade and my sketch using a new approach,
If you have the time, can you guys take a look and tell me what wrong with it?

Thanks for helping :D.
Attachments
scene practice.jpg
This is my new approach, not sure if it's suitable or not though
(103.44 KiB) Not downloaded yet
pg10 ske.jpg
One of my outlined page without shade
(229.56 KiB) Not downloaded yet
pg13 ske.jpg
One of my outlined page without shade
(215.83 KiB) Not downloaded yet
User avatar
edward raise
 
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2nd, 2016, 6:06 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby eishiya » March 12th, 2017, 8:43 am

You're still relying too much on thin strokes in your new shading approach and letting details overpower the form, I think. Try not to let detail shadows break up the lit parts, like how you currently have the dark shadows on her shorts all across the lit part of them. You're also putting highlights, midtones, and shadows everywhere, even though some parts should be entirely in shadow, and some parts shouldn't be getting highlights. In addition, highlights don't have to be white! By using white highlights, you make everything look really shiny, like everything is metal or PVC clothing. Some things should have duller highlights.
Also, you don't seem to be thinking a lot about your light source and the body's forms. Why are there highlights on the outlines of her breasts, even though the shadows suggest the light is coming from above? Why do the shadows underneath her breasts just make a dark halo around them, even though breasts are half-spheres rather than discs?

Explaining this stuff in text is hard, so here's a quick sketch-over:
Image
I removed a lot of the highlights, and I prioritized form-shadows. The various folds on the shorts are suggested by the highlights and the shadow/light boundary, rather than drawn out in full. This makes the shorts easier to understand as shorts, because they're not buried in detail.
I also changed her breasts significantly. Clothes don't shrink-wrap to breasts! Even tight clothing doesn't stick to the inside of the cleavage, it covers it. Note where I put the highlight - it's not around the outlight, it's where the most light hits the breasts.
I didn't do anything with the hair, but the same ideas apply to the hair. Don't draw every strand, focus on the form of the hair.

If you struggle with light and shadow, and with understanding the human form in 3D, I highly recommend taking the time to do some studies. Life drawing is ideal, but drawing from photos or videos is a decent alternative if life drawing isn't an option. If even that gives you trouble, step back and practice seeing forms by drawing simple objects like coffee cups and tennis balls from life. Complex forms like the human body are made up from simpler forms, so if you learn to understand simple 3D forms, you'll have a much easier time thinking about 3D bodies and how to shade them.


As for your comic lineart, I think the main thing you should focus on is using line weight. As I mentioned earlier, use thinner lines for things far away, and thicker lines for things up close. You can also suggest forms by using thinner lines on the lit sides and thicker lines on the shadowed sides of objects:
Image
You can tell where the sphere is lit from even though it's only lineart. The thickest lines on the pyramid are thinner than the thickest lines on the sphere, so it looks further away (and of course, the overlap also helps a lot!).
You're currently using your full range of line weight on everything no matter where it is or how important it is, which isn't helping things at all. In fact, sometimes your line weight actively works against you. You use very thin lines on chins compared to everything else, even though chins usually have shadows under them. This makes them not really read like chins, but like shirt collars or something. Light and shadow matter even at the lineart stage, so you need to learn to think in terms of light and shadow instead of leaving them for last.
Image
User avatar
eishiya
 
Posts: 9267
Joined: December 5th, 2009, 11:17 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby edward raise » March 13th, 2017, 7:08 am

Hi eishiya, thanks for taking time to write this for me, I'll spend more time on the understanding of light and shadow, except from asking online, most of the stuff i know are self-taught, so yeah my basics aren't that stable :oops:

Thanks! :)
User avatar
edward raise
 
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2nd, 2016, 6:06 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby eishiya » March 13th, 2017, 8:37 am

I'm self-taught too :] There are plenty of resources online (here's my favourite), and you have the entire world around you that you can observe and learn from. It's just a matter of putting the work in.
Start looking at the world like an artist. Instead of just seeing things, start really looking. What makes trees look like trees? Where are objects casting shadows? How far can an arm bend? What colour are things really? Humans naturally simplify a lot of things in their mind and don't see what's in front of them. As artists, we have to unlearn that so that we can learn to depict things well. You don't necessarily have to draw everything you see around you, but that's a good way to slow down and pay attention to the things you usually don't notice if you have trouble doing so otherwise.
Image
User avatar
eishiya
 
Posts: 9267
Joined: December 5th, 2009, 11:17 am

Re: Need help for helping the viewer understand what I draw

Postby edward raise » March 13th, 2017, 8:45 am

Thanks! I'll definitely take a look :).
User avatar
edward raise
 
Posts: 14
Joined: May 2nd, 2016, 6:06 am


Return to Creative Showcase

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest