red's art thread

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red's art thread

Postby redandblack64 » January 19th, 2011, 5:03 pm

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What exactly is wrong with this guy's pose? Why is it considered "stiff"? And, how does this problem arise in the first place? How do you prevent and crush it?
Last edited by redandblack64 on May 23rd, 2015, 6:43 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby eishiya » January 19th, 2011, 5:36 pm

Stiffness means that if you made this pose in real life, you wouldn't feel comfortable, your muscles would be tense, and there's no motion or swoosh in it.

In this particular case:
The legs are perfectly straight.
He is balanced equally on both legs (this almost never happens naturally).
The arm that's down is straight.
His back is completely straight - not even in the good posture way, just straight like a board. This is bad.
The folds on his clothes are unnatural and do not follow the motion/stress of his body, or his body's form.
His legs are on a straight line. This doesn't necessarily contribute to the stiffness, but it looks very weird. Humans are not immune to perspective.

When you draw, sketch the underlying parts first - the skull, spine and ribcage, the pelvis, the limbs. Almost never will these be at right angles to each other or parallel to anything. If they are, you will probably end up with a stiff pose.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby madmanga » January 19th, 2011, 9:57 pm

In this particular case:
The legs are perfectly straight.
He is balanced equally on both legs (this almost never happens naturally).
The arm that's down is straight.
His back is completely straight - not even in the good posture way, just straight like a board. This is bad.
The folds on his clothes are unnatural and do not follow the motion/stress of his body, or his body's form.
His legs are on a straight line. This doesn't necessarily contribute to the stiffness, but it looks very weird. Humans are not immune to perspective.


wow well put , i actually learned alot from that good example of constructive criticism
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby blankd » January 20th, 2011, 7:56 am

How do you prevent and crush it?

Remember that humans are prone to "arc" movements. Study the human form, draw from life, emulate the pose yourself, study your own behavior and look at other people's behavior/stances.

And while technically not "stiffness" please avoid the ^_^ "anime happy" face. While some people DO do something similar this isn't the best way to convey it.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby redandblack64 » January 21st, 2011, 4:43 pm

eishiya wrote:there's no motion or swoosh in it.

That's the main problem here. Yes, I went and practiced anatomy, and even tried to keep the proportions right. Even still, the figure turned out "stiff" and lifeless, because I failed to use the "Line of Action".
blanked wrote:Remember that humans are prone to "arc" movements. Study the human form, draw from life, emulate the pose yourself, study your own behavior and look at other people's behavior/stances.


You mean like this?
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Here's my Line of Action practice. I only had models to draw from.
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Do those look stiff to you?
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby eishiya » January 21st, 2011, 4:48 pm

Don't draw from models. 99.999% of the photos are posed, so they do NOT reflect actual motion, even when they try to. Look at real motion, or, if that's impossible, look at videos.

Those new sketches aren't as stiff, but they still look posed because the reference bodies were posing.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby redandblack64 » January 21st, 2011, 4:59 pm

eishiya wrote:Don't draw from models. 99.999% of the photos are posed, so they do NOT reflect actual motion, even when they try to. Look at real motion, or, if that's impossible, look at videos.

Those new sketches aren't as stiff, but they still look posed because the reference bodies were posing.

So, the key here is to make my humans look more "natural", and the only way to do that is by actually looking at people in motion? Time to put this camera/mp3 player to use! What about using film for reference?
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby Guest » January 21st, 2011, 5:34 pm

ask your friend to do the pose you want and take a picture or sketch down a quick stick man pose of it won't take long

i asked my friend to do a pose then stood on a chair to get perspective try this it made me realise that the picture i was drawing before looking at her do the pose was completely off
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby eishiya » January 21st, 2011, 5:53 pm

redandblack64 wrote:
eishiya wrote:Don't draw from models. 99.999% of the photos are posed, so they do NOT reflect actual motion, even when they try to. Look at real motion, or, if that's impossible, look at videos.

Those new sketches aren't as stiff, but they still look posed because the reference bodies were posing.

So, the key here is to make my humans look more "natural", and the only way to do that is by actually looking at people in motion? Time to put this camera/mp3 player to use! What about using film for reference?

That's the key to figuring out what makes humans look natural. Do that a lot (film works as long as it isn't too stylized or posed. So, don't use 300 for action reference, haha), and you'll develop a sense for motion in 2D over time.
Then, when you draw, you won't need ref anymore, you'll be able to just tell how to make your drawings more dynamic. That'll, in the end, save you time since you can't always have ref for everything you need to draw.

So, yes, try to observe real people in real motion, with recorded video, movies included, as a back-up. But don't just memorize poses and such, observe and try to understand why they look the way they do.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby blankd » January 22nd, 2011, 1:24 am

Forgive the mess. (Used your same "left hand on head, right arm at the side, feet planted at about 3/4ths view" thing)
Spoiler! :
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It's not perfect or anything, but does this help?

->If you aren't familiar with Gesture Drawing I suggest you get acquainted with it. Don't draw thick lines, try getting lines that indicate/imply motion. And of course, study the quirks and habits of motion in other people as well as yourself. Everyone has different ways of displaying body language. And since it bears repeating, REFRAIN from using photos as POSE reference. Inorganic is not a problem, but anything organic has their own motion that isn't captured well in a single shot, this is where the "implying" motion comes in.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby redandblack64 » January 24th, 2011, 3:04 pm

Here's some more, but from both observation and some videos I had.
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The woman in the chair is the only one I made up.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby blankd » January 24th, 2011, 8:32 pm

A little better, I actually recommend taking your sketchbook and with a pen draw ANYONE PASSING BY. If you can indicate what that person is doing in 30 seconds or less you're learning how to Gesture. Currently your lines are still way too think and hard that its not helping you.

Hint: Don't draw them naked either unless they REALLY ARE NAKED, draw that clothing or go to open life drawing labs (they may cost 10$ to get in but are usually worth it).
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby cavinginrainbows » January 25th, 2011, 1:06 pm

Drawing with a more unforgivable medium might help as well. The problem with pencil is that new artists become dependent on being able to use an eraser. By the time you've used it three or four times, you lose the original motion that was meant to be in the picture. If you switch to even a ball point pen, and try to just sketch and work with what you put down on the page, it will really loosen up your hand a lot, and give you a finer line that becomes more fluid.

I'm in no way a great artist, but I do know that once I switched to ballpoint my art started doing leaps and bounds by way of development.
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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby Harpo » January 25th, 2011, 1:07 pm

A little more visual aid to go along with BlankD's advice:

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Re: What's so "stiff" about this?

Postby Omegasama » January 25th, 2011, 2:27 pm

Gesture drawing is what you need. And with real people. Unless you know how proportions work properly you won't be able to use photos for your gesture drawings and life drawings. The only way to learn to understand light and how to make a 3D object into a 2D drawing is to actually have the physical object there infront of you.

The best way to get that stiffness out of your art is to do gestures and lifedrawings from real life people.

Here's some 30 second gesture drawing examples I have. What you capture is the vitality and life of the movement rather then the details. It is a great way to learn human anatomy and how to sketch really damn fast XD

The stiffness will disappear once you learn that.
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