red's art thread

Showcase your artistic works here for all to admire and critique. All forms of art are welcome.
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The purpose of this forum is to allow individuals to post their artwork for admiration and critique; it is NOT for promoting your comic (see Self-Promotion). It is strictly forbidden to create a topic with the sole purpose of linking to your comic.

Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » August 31st, 2013, 10:04 pm

Only these for now. Started to focus on weak spots that I notice in both the gestures and these studies.

Spoiler! :
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Decided to work smaller with this one, instead of doing the usual sprawling landscape.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby Ddraigeneth » August 31st, 2013, 10:46 pm

Really digging those flowers, nice depth.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » September 8th, 2013, 6:04 pm

Was exceptionally stressed throughout last 2 weeks, but actually managed to get something done. Aside from these studies.
Spoiler! :
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Ddraigeneth wrote:Really digging those flowers, nice depth.

Here's hoping you like this one and a few more to come, since I'm going to start focusing more on the smaller things. And there's the unexplored territory of wildlife, which there's tons of where I live.
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Here's my first shot at hand lettering after looking through the reference links you guys posted earlier. It's rather inconsistent (drew some slowly, and others quickly and some words are thicker than others), but I hope it's easy to read, since I tried to space the letters and words right. If not, this isn't much of a problem to fix until I get it right.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby eishiya » September 9th, 2013, 9:22 am

I found it a bit difficult to read. Here are some tips that might help:
- When you hand-letter, I recommend setting up some guidelines for letter height (two lines: baseline and cap height, since you're using all-caps, and letter between them). Space them evenly, so when you have multiple lines, the space between lines is consistent. You can also make a third line for where your horizontal strokes in letters like E and H are, if you want those uniform. For my digital hand-lettering, I keep a template layer with guidelines for several lines of text, so I don't have to redraw them. I just move it around as needed.
- Use a brush that's only slightly bigger than your thickest stroke (or just as thick, if you tend to press hard), that should help you keep the line weight consistent while letting you make thinner strokes as needed.
- Give your text breathing room. Try to keep at least one letter width's worth of space between text and the speech balloon's edge. Less than that impacts readability. Reduced/no space can be a neat effect to show a character speaking quickly, but it should be used sparingly. Another exception is showing yelling, but even then, it should only be done when the letters themselves are so large that their thinnest stroke is much thicker than the balloon edge, and it's still not necessary.
- Similarly, watch your letter spacing and kerning. Your letters are all bunched together in many of the bubbles. Don't let the letters touch unless you specifically want a crowded look for some reason. It looks almost like you're drawing the bubbles first and then adding the lettering, which isn't the best idea.
- Use bold italics (just bold is also acceptable in many cases) for emphasis, not underlines. Underlines make the text look crowded.
- Close your Os. It'll be easier to read them as Os rather than Us that way. If you have a hard time with alternate letter forms, remember: lettering is drawing, not writing. The way you write doesn't have to be the way you letter. Think of them as shapes to draw, just like when you draw images.

This isn't a lettering tip, but a common lettering convention: Put serifs on your capital I when you're using it as a pronoun (e.g. "I am a pronoun"), and no serifs otherwise. It's not a problem if you don't put the serifs in, but it enhances readability a little by setting the word "I" apart.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » September 15th, 2013, 5:50 pm

At this point, the comic is starting to become the center of my attention. These studies, the gestures, and simply observing people and places have proven to be good ways to warm up, though.
Spoiler! :
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This one was very challenging. The permanence of charcoal makes one be mindful of their mark making.
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eishiya wrote:I found it a bit difficult to read. Here are some tips that might help:
- When you hand-letter, I recommend setting up some guidelines for letter height (two lines: baseline and cap height, since you're using all-caps, and letter between them). Space them evenly, so when you have multiple lines, the space between lines is consistent. You can also make a third line for where your horizontal strokes in letters like E and H are, if you want those uniform. For my digital hand-lettering, I keep a template layer with guidelines for several lines of text, so I don't have to redraw them. I just move it around as needed.
- Use a brush that's only slightly bigger than your thickest stroke (or just as thick, if you tend to press hard), that should help you keep the line weight consistent while letting you make thinner strokes as needed.
- Give your text breathing room. Try to keep at least one letter width's worth of space between text and the speech balloon's edge. Less than that impacts readability. Reduced/no space can be a neat effect to show a character speaking quickly, but it should be used sparingly. Another exception is showing yelling, but even then, it should only be done when the letters themselves are so large that their thinnest stroke is much thicker than the balloon edge, and it's still not necessary.
- Similarly, watch your letter spacing and kerning. Your letters are all bunched together in many of the bubbles. Don't let the letters touch unless you specifically want a crowded look for some reason. It looks almost like you're drawing the bubbles first and then adding the lettering, which isn't the best idea.
- Use bold italics (just bold is also acceptable in many cases) for emphasis, not underlines. Underlines make the text look crowded.
- Close your Os. It'll be easier to read them as Os rather than Us that way. If you have a hard time with alternate letter forms, remember: lettering is drawing, not writing. The way you write doesn't have to be the way you letter. Think of them as shapes to draw, just like when you draw images.

This isn't a lettering tip, but a common lettering convention: Put serifs on your capital I when you're using it as a pronoun (e.g. "I am a pronoun"), and no serifs otherwise. It's not a problem if you don't put the serifs in, but it enhances readability a little by setting the word "I" apart.

I ended up creating an elementary school style template (the ones that look like a sideways two lane road), and got these results.
Spoiler! :
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Image

I did draw the word balloons before doing the lettering, but will now pre-letter and sketch at the thumb-nailing stage stage.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » September 22nd, 2013, 5:48 pm

Got nothing else but this.
Spoiler! :
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The only thing on my mind right now is the comic. Fell a night behind because of wanting to wind down and play the new Tomb Raider game a few days ago after work.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby marchen de lune » September 25th, 2013, 12:53 pm

Your gestures are looking alright but honestly could be worked on. Have you sat down and done a single piece for 3+ hours or have you mostly just been doing small/quick studies? And what range of pencils are using? Ever used charcoal?

And I'm honestly not really sure what the second picture is. Is it grass?

Not trying to come off as rude. I just want to help.
yo
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » September 29th, 2013, 11:41 am

marchen de lune wrote:Your gestures are looking alright but honestly could be worked on. Have you sat down and done a single piece for 3+ hours or have you mostly just been doing small/quick studies? And what range of pencils are using? Ever used charcoal?

And I'm honestly not really sure what the second picture is. Is it grass?

Not trying to come off as rude. I just want to help.

I don't have the time to sit and do a 3 hour study, since the precious few hours I have are spent on making comics, and around 45 minutes spent on the gestures and quick studies as a warm up exercise. I learned that the only way to get better at making comics is to actually make comics (the studies are for learning/understanding how to draw certain things, developing a visual vocabulary, and work as a sort of reference when it comes to drawing people, objects and environments within the comics) and that's where most of my time is spent.

I can't really see the point of spending so much time on a study, since the point has always been to gain an understanding of what I'm trying to draw, and what's the point of spending all this extra time polishing something that's already served it's purpose, when you could be working on what the point of doing it was; comics?

To answer the charcoal question, look at the post before my last. As for pencil range, I've started using a 2B pencil a while ago for the quick studies. I've been using cheap writing pad paper for the quick studies.

Straight and honest question. Are you complaining about these studies not looking pretty enough, or am I missing things that actually matter? The only thing you mentioned was the readability of the grass study, but the rest sound like you could be saying that out of superiority and spite.

Butnoseriously. I'm all ears.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby eishiya » September 29th, 2013, 12:39 pm

I think your studies are in that range where they're too long to help you develop gesture skills, but too short to allow you to focus on anatomy/structure in detail. When you sit down to do studies, know what you intend to do, and give yourself a corresponding amount of time.

For gestures to help you find and draw the curves and motion, don't take longer than a minute. For anatomy studies, half an hour to a couple of hours is good. 3+ hour studies are for when you want to study anatomy and texture in detail.


Edit: Also, the lettering is an improvement! I look forward to seeing how you'll do when you do the lettering before the bubbles. It can take a bit of practice to learn to visualise your text enough to account for it correctly in the thumbnail and sketching phases. When working digitally, you can do the lettering before you do the sketch, which may help you learn.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » October 6th, 2013, 8:41 pm

Whoops, forgot to upload last week. Tried doing some gesture drawings on the way home, since I'm getting tired of using the online tools, and am finding it limiting. Here's two of my favorite pages, done in ink. Probably spent 20 to 90 seconds on these.
Spoiler! :
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Just one of the landscapes. I'm not finished with the other one, and wont rush it since it's an object study that's vitally important when it comes to the comic.
Spoiler! :
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And page 4 of the comic. Still taking too long with stopping and thinking.
Spoiler! :
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » October 15th, 2013, 9:42 pm

A bit late... never gave myself the chance to scan any of these on the weekend.
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Spoiler! :
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An object study of the motorcycle that the lead character will be riding in the current comic. Seem to see this bike everywhere where I live.
Spoiler! :
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby redandblack64 » October 23rd, 2013, 10:53 pm

Finally had a chance to upload these.
Spoiler! :
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Went and tried some charcoal techniques I saw someone else using.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby three » October 24th, 2013, 3:15 pm

The reflections add a nice touch in your latest charcoal piece, but the landmasses themselves look rushed. Learning how to block out mass is probably the most useful skill set you can develop when it comes to landscapes. Instead of focusing on drawing lines, focus on blocking out shadows, and from there begin to develop the piece in more detail. If you haven't already, I'd really recommend giving willow charcoal a shot -- it's super fun to work with, and it's soft enough to give you some nice areas of shadow without taking too much time :D It's not dark enough to use in finished work, but it might do if you're just working on studies.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby Aenea » October 25th, 2013, 12:53 am

I second what three said.
Also maybe you can indicate the landmasses with lines, that follow the form.
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Re: Comic related practice

Postby eishiya » October 25th, 2013, 6:35 am

Aenea wrote:I second what three said.
Also maybe you can indicate the landmasses with lines, that follow the form.

This is a good thing to practice, but I think RaB should focus on creating forms with areas/washes of value before he tackles using lines to achieve the same thing. Using lines is a more advanced technique, and trying to do it before one understands how to effectively use values on their own just sets up bad habits.
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