Let's all get together and make an anime!

[Shoprocks]

I think it'd make sense to have at least one teenage character, but not as a main character. Having a teenager lie about his age and join the army because he thinks it's cool, then realizing how stupid and inexperienced he is might be interesting... and how the others get along with him.

I would totally love that, just as a small part of it. But he certainly wouldn't be lumped together with the creme de la creme, so the question is how to even work him into the story...

[Asj]

I think it'd make sense to have at least one teenage character, but not as a main character. Having a teenager lie about his age and join the army because he thinks it's cool, then realizing how stupid and inexperienced he is might be interesting... and how the others get along with him.

I would totally love that, just as a small part of it. But he certainly wouldn't be lumped together with the creme de la creme, so the question is how to even work him into the story...

He aced the written test?
Well, probably any new guy would seem inexperienced compared to people who've been actually on the battle field before (training can't be the same), but I doubt someone in an elite group would be a kid sneaking in.

[UrbanMysticDee]

Maybe there's a guy who doesn't belong there, so he gets booted from the mission? Having someone weighing them down for a short time could help us show by comparison how competent our guys really are. Just a suggestion. I do agree with what you're saying though.

I appreciate "mixing up the whole WWII era Germans as stock villain cliche" (you phrased it well). If we have Germans, let's not make them devils. You definitely know what you're talking about, but at the same time, that post was pretty harsh.

"Brothers" was just an idea because it's a different kind of relationship.

As for "stumbling into being a soldier," we as civilians have some understanding that war is brutal, but it is also very glorified. People join for a sense of adventure, importance, and duty (they DO go into it thinking they'll be badasses), but these things might fade, depending on the person, as they see what it's really like. I see military recruitment tables at my school every couple of weeks and I'm sure that a lot of the people who are considering it don't actually know what they're getting into, but that doesn't mean they aren't intelligent. Also, they're appealing to students, which kind of answers the question about how a student joins the army.

As for accuracy in injuries and death, I think it's important, but we don't know as much as you. Correct us, but don't attack us for not knowing these off-the-cuff :/

There's not knowing stuff and then there's just stuff that is so bad, that ignores half of everything that was said in previous posts and misrepresents the other half.

I didn't ask how a student joins the army, I asked how a student on a class trip to a war zone magically transforms into Rambo. A student who joins the army gets training. A student on a trip to a war zone pees his pants and dies when he realises this isn't Grand Theft Auto.

Or is the evil organization thing too animeish or something for a war story?

Hehe...yeah. Having a polarized cast of good/bad is very well-suited for a story that focuses on the main characters' struggles and their eventual victory, with lots of action and that sort of thing, but if I'm not mistaken I think this group wants something more complex. A crazy amount of factors and clashes must go into a war, that's generally just too difficult to write for (but not for us...right?). I agree that protests would also be interesting, if they fit.

And FINALLY, as for who's animating and acting and all that...I'll get on that and see what we have to work with.

When about will the first animation test be ready? I'd like to know what I have to work with.

I'm not sure about an eventual victory. Wars generally take a long time and unless this is going to be like The Godfather or something with several sequels we should stick to just getting everyone out alive.

UrbanMysticDee-
There's a fine line between constructive criticism and just nit-picking.

I'm not too fond of the whole "trained killers" idea, but I'll give it thought.
When I hear war story I come to think in lavish detail of a man wandering in the terrains of war. The problem with that would be it would be far too loose are far as plot, but I think we could introduce many different situations. Also when I hear war story, I think of emotional struggle in a quest to come to closure with the decisions a soldier has to make. For anyone who's read the book "The Painted Bird", something like that (that book was devoured, I really loved it).

Yeah, there's also a fine line between incredulous and impossible and 1. ignoring the story's opening which was written two posts earlier and 2. ignoring explanations that were given as to why certain suggestions couldn't work that were explained several times in several previous posts.

Like it or not modern soldiers are trained killers. They undergo training to overcome the natural aversion to killing another human being. That's the whole point. War doesn't work without killing people.

May I try as an assistant writer? I love the idea of writing from the "bad guys" perspective; I like Sven Hassel's books.

Cool. You can invent the culture of the unidentified airid highland country and/or the warlord and his personal army.

I think it'd make sense to have at least one teenage character, but not as a main character. Having a teenager lie about his age and join the army because he thinks it's cool, then realizing how stupid and inexperienced he is might be interesting... and how the others get along with him.

Most of the non-US guys fighting are probably teenagers. It's possible to include stuff from their perspective. Whether it fits all depends on how long this thing is.

Is there going to be a resistance/terrorist faction?
If so, then is it possible to drag a civilian into this? I kinda have this idea in my head of a girl (part of a church whose religion isn't relevant and the girl is completely pacifist) who is a civilian and all of a sudden dragged into the mess by becoming a POW. And then she gets paired with the most battle-crazed veteran soldier and has to deal with him, the violence and death, reality, and her actions (she broke her pacifist pact defending herself because of (Rape as Drama)).
Please provide feed back on this idea. I'm just throwing this idea out there.

Loads of civilians. Such is the curse of modern war where civilians suffer often in greater numbers than armies. I don't see someone giving up ardent pacifism because of a single tragic event, nor do I like the idea of "rape as drama" but I'm sure the resident assistant writer can come up with something.

[UrbanMysticDee]

Now that that's over, here is the story so far. Please read this first before suggesting all sorts of stuff that may already be covered. There is a bit of reprint here but I don't know where else to put this so everyone can see it.

Title: In A Heartbeat

Setting: Unidentified Arid Highland Country (see here for scenery details)
Only Major City in above country
Scenes of protest in USA, possibly on CNN or something (time permitting - meaning it's up to the animators how much work they are willing to shoulder)

Synopsis: USA is trying to oust a warlord in said country, painting him as a super villain to the media but they really are trying to secure power in the region to prevent China/Russia/Other Superpower from dominating key resources (oil, minerals, strategic location, who knows). A small expeditionary force is sent to the country to kill the warlord (around 2000 men, including support staff, most of whom won't see combat). Delta Force will go in by air with ground troops at ready to provide assistance if needed (it will be needed). Things go fine at first then something happens, people die, one of the Delta guys gets captured by the warlord and a ground convoy goes in to rescue the guys who were overrun. Guy gets tortured, his comrads spend the night rescuing him. All the while there's speculation on what the point of the war is, sleep deprivation, stuff happening with the people in the country, attempts to smooth out relations between the US and the other country. The guy is rescued but the war is far from over and everyone reflects on what can realistically be accomplished.

There's probably going to be about 40 characters, including:

15 Delta guys (five of whom we follow from the beginning)
US general
Warlord
Torturer
A couple youngsters caught up in the frenzy to fight for the warlord
Their families, who may or may not want them to fight, depending on what the culture of this place is
Bradley crew (part of the convoy)
TV reporter

Opening scene: Close up of dusty ground. Title appears in real simple, crisp, clean letters, kind of small, dead center. Sound on an engine grows slowly from silence. A tire zooms past, in front of the title. As soon as it hits the ground on screen music plays - Long Tall Sally by Little Richard. Pull back to see some sort of vehicle speeding along in the desert (easier to animate than jungle I suspect). Five guys are inside driving around wildly (except the driver - the ranking officer - who is wearing aviator shades and is perfectly relaxed), shooting at random stuff (bushes, birds, deer, whatever) for target practice. It's a lull in the action and they're wearing as little as possible. The sun is very bright and drowns out a lot of detail (high contrast, lots of yellow and white).

[Shoprocks]

Just before we get any further, I want to clear some things up...

UrbanMysticDee, I don't know jack shit about war, of course I don't, I've never fought in it. But certainly there must be some common ground between the wusses who can't handle anything and people who are killing machines? Are you trying to tell me that nobody in the military has ever been afraid, has ever had doubts about what they were doing, has ever had a twinge of regret when they've pulled the trigger? Of course that's not what you're saying, that would be insane. But it kind of comes across that way.

Also, we definitely need to start making the distinction between what has been decided and what is just brainstorming. We're not ignoring your opening because we're asses, we're doing it because we don't know what's official. That's why I want to make that distinction. If nobody opposes then congrats, your last post is canon and to be followed from now on, and I'll note that somewhere.

[Asj]

Cool opening scene. ^_^ I can almost picture it... you can probably see some sweat on their bodies, too, like drops of sweat on their face, skin shiny, right?
(I guess they have plenty of ammunition?)

edit:

Are you trying to tell me that nobody in the military has ever been afraid, has ever had doubts about what they were doing, has ever had a twinge of regret when they've pulled the trigger? Of course that's not what you're saying, that would be insane. But it kind of comes across that way.

All the while there's speculation on what the point of the war is, sleep deprivation, stuff happening

...? I figured that stuff would be in the little details.

[Shoprocks]

Now regarding character design...

If we have a big cast of characters, we'll have to make them distinct. Even when we have different artists running about we want to be sure who's who. That means we *probably* shouldn't have ten young people with buzzcuts and the same face. But our leading guys have to be super strong and fit, which limits things a little...(I'll see what I can do to start us off.)

What ages do we want? Facial hair allowed? Anime-ish hair that doesn't go much wilder than Full Metal Alchemist? Also, any female soldiers?

I wonder if we have any hope in making the art style consistent ;__;''

[haentelus]

I feel like Dee's direction to which this is being taken is focusing too much on an area most of us know little about. Though Delta Force and all other "characters" is a helpful list, and there's a few people I hadn't given one thought to on it.

It also seems as through it's quite lengthy. We're a scraggly group of amateurs. I suggest we keep it small so we don't kill ourselves. It seems we have big aspirations that are higher than we can reach.

Shop, the average man in the military is 19-24 years old. Of course there's officers and such, and most in the Delta Forces are older anyways- the youngest was 27 or something. So a character abouut 30 would be most realistic.

SHOPROCKS YOU ARE DRAWING

[Asj]

I was thinking that even with very short hair, people can look quite different. Red hair, black hair, blond hair... consistant personality, like someone's always smiling, someone's philosophical... I think there can be quite a few individuals before it gets hard to tell the difference.

hmm... "A tire zooms past, in front of the title" - did one of the tires fall off the vechicle, or is it still attached, but just the first thing you see?
The title would be cool if there's this little flashy thing that happens, like it kind'a glows and changes colors before vanishing into the sand. Maybe something reddish, like a heart (and blood)...

edit:
I tried making a storyboard type of thing, because I wanted to see how it would look. But... I couldn't figure out how to illustrate a few things the way I wanted to. :/ The positioning and angles are a little off because of that. It's kind'a hard picking out key frames to illustrate a smooth animation like I was thinking of. >_< The timing's wrong, and the camera movements need to be fixed so it doesn't go back and forth, but... it's something. The vechicle should be farther back than that when it begins going toward the camera, and would be slower catching up with the camera. Maybe if people like it, I can work on fixing the mistakes. (also, after the last frame, the camera would jump around a little bit between characters, I think, but this part would be all one shot with a moving camera, without any cuts.)

Spoiler! :

I thought starting with it going in that direction would add to the action, and... stuff. I have reasons... just hard to explain. Might change angles, though. Maybe not turn the camera, and instead just keep up with the vechicle the whole time... although that'd make it harder to zoom out and then back in...

[UrbanMysticDee]

Just before we get any further, I want to clear some things up...

UrbanMysticDee, I don't know jack shit about war, of course I don't, I've never fought in it. But certainly there must be some common ground between the wusses who can't handle anything and people who are killing machines? Are you trying to tell me that nobody in the military has ever been afraid, has ever had doubts about what they were doing, has ever had a twinge of regret when they've pulled the trigger? Of course that's not what you're saying, that would be insane. But it kind of comes across that way.

Well you kind of just answered your own question there.

Now regarding character design...

If we have a big cast of characters, we'll have to make them distinct. Even when we have different artists running about we want to be sure who's who. That means we *probably* shouldn't have ten young people with buzzcuts and the same face. But our leading guys have to be super strong and fit, which limits things a little...(I'll see what I can do to start us off.)

What ages do we want? Facial hair allowed? Anime-ish hair that doesn't go much wilder than Full Metal Alchemist? Also, any female soldiers?

I wonder if we have any hope in making the art style consistent ;__;''

Average age for Delta Force Operators (they're called Operators) is 30. They usually have civilian hair cuts because even most people within the Army can't know who they are and they are allowed to grow facial hair if they want. They operate on a first name basis (or nicknames) also to protect their identities. Attrition rate is classified but probably close to 90%, so we're talking about absolute peak physical condition.

Women are still not allowed in combat roles for the US. I don't know what they actually do in the military, but there is general animosity toward women in the military by the men because they aren't expected to perform to the same standards. There have also been studies that suggest that serving together harms the judgement of male soldiers because they focus on protecting the women instead of doing their job right. It's safe to say that no Americas within the city itself will be women, although there may be some back at the base.

I feel like Dee's direction to which this is being taken is focusing too much on an area most of us know little about. Though Delta Force and all other "characters" is a helpful list, and there's a few people I hadn't given one thought to on it.

It also seems as through it's quite lengthy. We're a scraggly group of amateurs. I suggest we keep it small so we don't kill ourselves. It seems we have big aspirations that are higher than we can reach.

Shop, the average man in the military is 19-24 years old. Of course there's officers and such, and most in the Delta Forces are older anyways- the youngest was 27 or something. So a character abouut 30 would be most realistic.

SHOPROCKS YOU ARE DRAWING

I see I was beaten to the age thing. That's good.
Just because we're amateurs doesn't mean we have to produce something amateurish looking.

hmm... "A tire zooms past, in front of the title" - did one of the tires fall off the vechicle, or is it still attached, but just the first thing you see?
The title would be cool if there's this little flashy thing that happens, like it kind'a glows and changes colors before vanishing into the sand. Maybe something reddish, like a heart (and blood)...

The tire is attached to the vehicle, it's just the first thing in frame. The tire comes in frame, blocks the title, then we pull back, the vehicle goes buy and the title is gone.
Flashing stuff is nice and all but I tried to keep it real simple for the sake of the animators, especially because no one has seen any of the animation yet. It's something nice and easy that can make a nice alpha test video and then I'm thinking we can tweek stuff when we know what the limitations of what's possible are. I'm not sure I understand having a heart lying around in the desert.

[Asj]

Ah, okay. I could see it both ways with the tire, so I picked one at random. ^_^" (goes to edit)
And I meant, the title being red, not an actual heart, like symbolism or something.

[UrbanMysticDee]

Your animated storyboard is so cool!

I was picturing something like this:


Would red words on a sandy yellow be easy to read? I don't know, my eyes aren't great. I know blue would provide the most contrast but blue would look stupid.

What is the problem with Michael Jackson?Part of the torture scene from Three Kings

[Asj]

I changed it to the other thing I pictured. (and now I feel stupid for picking the other option, since I knew that didn't make sense, anyhow. >_>" ) http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/A ... bTest2.gif
(oh, and about the red on yellow thing, I think it depends on the colors. If it's a dark red on a lighter yellow, I think it could work, maybe)

hmm... your vechile goes the opposite way mine does. O_o ...I wonder why I commonly picture things moving the directions I do... The tire covering the title is interesting. ...I think the problem I have with zooming out that way, is that I feel there needs to be a time when it's zoomed in on the guys in the vechicle, to hear what's going on and be there with them (and get first impressions of them). But... that way, it's getting farther away, and then I don't know how to come back...
maybe the camera would slowly catch up with them again...?

[Shoprocks]

Just before we get any further, I want to clear some things up...

UrbanMysticDee, I don't know jack shit about war, of course I don't, I've never fought in it. But certainly there must be some common ground between the wusses who can't handle anything and people who are killing machines? Are you trying to tell me that nobody in the military has ever been afraid, has ever had doubts about what they were doing, has ever had a twinge of regret when they've pulled the trigger? Of course that's not what you're saying, that would be insane. But it kind of comes across that way.

Well you kind of just answered your own question there.

What I was trying to say with that comment is that in your previous posts, it seemed like you were saying there is no such middle ground. Don't spend your time in these forums trying to shut me or anybody else down.

Also, I think Haentelus was saying that it might not be within our means to make a feature-length thing at the first go...which is why I keep pushing the "pilot" suggestion. We could use it as a promo and get some more artists onboard so we can actually see it through to the end.

Average age for Delta Force Operators (they're called Operators) is 30. They usually have civilian hair cuts because even most people within the Army can't know who they are and they are allowed to grow facial hair if they want. They operate on a first name basis (or nicknames) also to protect their identities. Attrition rate is classified but probably close to 90%, so we're talking about absolute peak physical condition.

Women are still not allowed in combat roles for the US. I don't know what they actually do in the military, but there is general animosity toward women in the military by the men because they aren't expected to perform to the same standards. There have also been studies that suggest that serving together harms the judgement of male soldiers because they focus on protecting the women instead of doing their job right. It's safe to say that no Americas within the city itself will be women, although there may be some back at the base.

Ten-four, that makes things soooo much easier on us. As for the women, it's a shame things are like that, but it totally makes sense. (Although if y'all don't mind, I'd like to design a few women for the base!)

(storyboard)

That is really dang cool. Tomorrow I can start animating parts if you want me to c: I have to get to bed soon and go to school though T:<

To help with angles, we could get/make a model vehicle and film it with the camera angles we want. I know a lot of animators use real life footage for reference.

[Asj]

don't start making finished pictures yet, since not everything's worked out.
hmm... I just realized how odd it is that earlier today, someone from church asked me if I could draw some 30's/40's planes for them...