SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby revzet » November 2nd, 2012, 8:56 pm

Can't wait to see how this goes!
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Afrohawkman » November 2nd, 2012, 9:05 pm

Falconer wrote:
diceknight wrote:Also, did they take out some categories? I remember ones like Most Improved, Best Characters, etc. Ah well, still looks like this will be a lot of fun. :)


Those will still be there, just in a different way. Basically now every comic who makes it to voting is eligible for those categories, although they have been simplified down into 5 (most improved, great artwork, great writing, great web design, and great characters).

More details on that when it gets closer to voting time.

Pardon me if this seems kind of like nitpicking but why exactly would the team remove those categories and not say anything about it? I feel like that's a pretty big change to the system. It would make more sense if we had more information as to why they were removed and how this new system would come into effect but at the moment it just seems like the team took it out for no reason.

I don't really see the reason behind not informing us on the new system now either. I doubt telling us about it now will change what happens in the future unless it's some super surprise. If it is a surprise, then excuse this post altogether, but otherwise I'm a little curious on the reasoning here.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Falconer » November 2nd, 2012, 10:53 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:Pardon me if this seems kind of like nitpicking but why exactly would the team remove those categories and not say anything about it? I feel like that's a pretty big change to the system. It would make more sense if we had more information as to why they were removed and how this new system would come into effect but at the moment it just seems like the team took it out for no reason.

I don't really see the reason behind not informing us on the new system now either. I doubt telling us about it now will change what happens in the future unless it's some super surprise. If it is a surprise, then excuse this post altogether, but otherwise I'm a little curious on the reasoning here.


They have not been completely removed; they are just no longer their own categories for nominations. The reason for this is to streamline the voting process. If we kept them as their own categories, the number of things to vote on would become overwhelming. The assumption is that if you are nominating a comic you really like, it probably already has at least one of those qualities already (good writing, art, characters, etc). and you will have your chance to note these qualities when voting.

The voting system is very different from before. Hopefully better, and if not, direct all your sticks and stones on me.

I'm not sure if the rest of the team wants to keep it a surprise or not which is why I have refrained from elaborating. I was also concerned it might be too much information at once and confuse people about what they should be doing at this stage in the process.

blankd wrote:I see some people actually nominating comics that aren't even hosted on SJ or have "dead" mirrors on SJ- do the dead mirrors still qualify? (Their SJ mirror has not updated in 6+ months but their "actual" site still updates).


I think (someone else correct me if I'm wrong) that sites that haven't updated on SJ shouldn't qualify since they've left the site. Comics that aren't on SJ will be ignored when we sort through the nominations. After all, it is the Smackjeeves Awards and we want to give praise to our community!
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Afrohawkman » November 2nd, 2012, 11:20 pm

Falconer wrote:
Afrohawkman wrote:Pardon me if this seems kind of like nitpicking but why exactly would the team remove those categories and not say anything about it? I feel like that's a pretty big change to the system. It would make more sense if we had more information as to why they were removed and how this new system would come into effect but at the moment it just seems like the team took it out for no reason.

I don't really see the reason behind not informing us on the new system now either. I doubt telling us about it now will change what happens in the future unless it's some super surprise. If it is a surprise, then excuse this post altogether, but otherwise I'm a little curious on the reasoning here.


They have not been completely removed; they are just no longer their own categories for nominations. The reason for this is to streamline the voting process. If we kept them as their own categories, the number of things to vote on would become overwhelming. The assumption is that if you are nominating a comic you really like, it probably already has at least one of those qualities already (good writing, art, characters, etc). and you will have your chance to note these qualities when voting.

The voting system is very different from before. Hopefully better, and if not, direct all your sticks and stones on me.

Ah sorry if I came off as a bit frank, I was just curious. Now that I hear the reasoning, I'm looking forward to this new voting system. I trust that you and the rest of the team know what you're doing, I just wanted to know the reason for changes. Can't wait to hear about this new voting system! I hope it finally fixes the problems last year's system had :D
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby AlkseeyaKC » November 3rd, 2012, 8:50 am

the only thing I'm sad about the new system is that we can't vote on site templates or banners. They only go on who gets voted. What about the people that made awesome banners or site looks, but no one votes for the comic. Makes me feel like we should just leave those two winnings out because they wouldn't be fair.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby eishiya » November 3rd, 2012, 8:58 am

AlkseeyaKC wrote:the only thing I'm sad about the new system is that we can't vote on site templates or banners. They only go on who gets voted. What about the people that made awesome banners or site looks, but no one votes for the comic. Makes me feel like we should just leave those two winnings out because they wouldn't be fair.

I'm hoping those two categories get eliminated. The goal of the awards is to promote great comics worth reading. Banners and site layouts have nothing to do with the quality of a comic. If anything, a good banner/layout is already its own reward/promotion tool.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby AlkseeyaKC » November 3rd, 2012, 9:20 am

Yeah but they were a fun thing to work for. I don't know if the awards really truly promote great comics (well it dose in a way), do to it being a popularity contest. There are tones of comic out there that get over looked. For me the fun part is going threw the nominations and finding some new comics to check out more then anything and fantasizing winning. I rather have a fun contest then an over strict contest. The more strict something is, the lest fun it is. I'm only saying. ^_^;
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Falconer » November 3rd, 2012, 10:12 am

But...but...the voting hasn't even happened yet. Why are we judging the new system when you don't even know how it is different yet??

We have SPECIFICALLY changed the system to eliminate the "popularity contest" feel of the previous years. You will notice there is no "comic needs x # of votes to make it to voting" statement. There is a reason for this. All comics nominated are looked at and considered. So while your worry about tons of comics being overlooked is a valid concern, a comic only needs ONE nomination to be considered. It is completely possible that a comic with one nomination may make it to voting.

Perhaps there are more rules (although I don't really like there are), but the previous method was NOT "more fun". The previous method had many people upset and feeling it was unfair and all about popularity. While I understand this was more for the primary categories than the fun categories, we're taking a priority on the primary ones to give credit due to those who've worked hard and made really good comics. There is nothing wrong with the fun categories, but they'd make voting longer and more complicated.

Things to keep in mind: We are taking a chance on this completely new system. I am coding the system for you guys, for free, from scratch. We worked hard on the idea, and I'm working hard to try and make it happen. But it's different! It's new! It won't be perfect. But if the basis of it works well, we can make changes and improve it for next year.

I'm all about suggestions, but you haven't even seen it yet or know how it's going to work. So how can you judge it?

I'm sorry if I come across pretty aggravated, but we've spent a lot of time on this. I really hope you guys like the result and I want you to have fun. I'm sorry if its not perfect with what you've envisioned the awards to be, but we feel it's pretty good. So please, please just wait and give it a chance. If you don't like it, that's totally cool, but at least wait until after it's done with to decide.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby AlkseeyaKC » November 3rd, 2012, 10:37 am

I don't think there is ANY way you can FULLY get rid of the popular contest results unless you elementate all popular comics an who would be the judge that that? XD Specoly when there are a lot of popular comics that are good and worthy, I won't give names. I think the only way to get rid of it is by not letting previous winners be nominated for one or two years. But we seem to got rid of that. O_o?

I thing its good your working on a new system, we just don't know what that is. ^_^ it would be good to know other wise we compare to before. Also I guess I didn't see the complaints from last year. It seemed fun to me. lol but I tend to ignore people complaining about popular contest things. It sucks but it happens. And there will always be people complaining about something.

I didn't mean to be mean or anything, I just missed being able to find people for these categories. Last year I was the only one that nominated Dementid City for best art, and it won. We don't have a best art section this time around so I guess if I were to nominate it this year I just kind of have to fart it into some category? maybe horror because I haven't nominated a horror though I feel odd because its not much of a horror comic. I'm not sure how many people are thinking this way? lol mostly because we don't know there is a best of something that will happen later. So like a comic like Dementid City would just be over looked.

Again please don't get anoyed at me, I'm just presenting feedback and something to think about. I'm eager to see what you have worked out for the voting round!
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Afrohawkman » November 3rd, 2012, 10:42 am

Falconer wrote:But...but...the voting hasn't even happened yet. Why are we judging the new system when you don't even know how it is different yet??

We're...not?

We've just asked a few questions and started discussing what we know about the awards from previous years. Again, because we don't know anything about the new system, we're curious about what's going and figure this is a good thread to discuss our feelings on the matter. We're not trying to judge your work, just discussing what we know. I'm sure our opinions will change once we hear more information but for now we're just discussing what we do know.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby eishiya » November 3rd, 2012, 10:53 am

AlkseeyaKC wrote:We don't have a best art section this time around so I guess if I were to nominate it this year I just kind of have to fart it into some category?

The category is still there, it's just not one you can nominate for. The nominations happen by genre, but from what I understand, the judges will pick comics from across all nominations for categories like "Most Improved" and "Best (whatever) Art".
If I understand that system right, I'm in favour of it. By eliminating "Best art" and the like as stand-alone categories, the awards are effectively encouraging people to nominate well-rounded comics.

That said, I think that it is a valid concern that some great comics don't fall neatly into the provided categories. I think that since the judges look at all the nominations, it's okay to nominate a comic into a category it only marginally fits, if there's no better option.

Also, is there any place where the complete system for the awards is described in detail? I haven't seen anything but tentative discussion from forever ago. I'd appreciate more transparency. You guys have been good at answering questions in this thread, but I think it would be best to describe the entire process somewhere on the forums.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Falconer » November 3rd, 2012, 11:19 am

I'm sorry.

Here:

Spoiler! :
Simple, quick summary:

    + 15 comics nominated will make it to voting for their respective categories
    + there will be 3 rounds of voting
    + each round gives 1 week to vote on all categories
    + instead of simply voting for one best comic, you are drag & drop ranking them (in groups of 5)
    + each round the 15 of a category are grouped differently, giving each comic 3 chances to be ranked against the other comics
    + things like "great writing/art/etc" are called "kudos", and it's a bonus option you can give a comic when voting. You can give each comic only ONE kudo per round. It is separate from the ranking, and if you don't want to give any comic a kudo, you don't have to. Or you can give them all one if you want. It is completely optional.


As far as comics that don't fit into one category nicely, just do the best you can. There's not really much that can be done about that. We are looking at all of them and if it seems to fit better elsewhere, we'll handle it.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby AlkseeyaKC » November 3rd, 2012, 11:28 am

Oh wow, thanks for telling us how it works I think thats a nice way of voting. I like the drag and drop and Kudos features. I think they will work well. Though its still not going to fully emanate the popularity comics. There really is no way of getting rid of it. though I do think this will be a much better system then before and more fair in the end. Thank you! =3
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby BadBanana » November 3rd, 2012, 11:34 am

Wow...I can't believe people are getting in such a huff over this already, and it's only the first week of nominations. So far, I think everything that has been announced/done has been a nice improvement from previous years. Everything is organized, fair, and the rules are easy to understand for everyone....as well as being posted EVERYWHERE so they can't be ignored. Makes all this a very simple and clean operation. And the fact you only need a *single* nomination from a reader, in my mind, truly eliminates the popularity aspect.

So I'd like to thank the members of SJ Community who are volunteering themselves for this project. No one is paying them and it is a plain as day to me that they've worked hard. They've obviously put a lot of thought into this. My impression is that the Awards are only continuing this year out of adoration for Smack Jeeves (which, c'mon, is the most badass comic hosting site eva') and out of a love for webcomics themselves. I'd suggest to the rest of us to refrain from spazzing out or being judgmental until this is all over and done with. I have faith things are gonna be really awesome, and that a lot of worthy comics are going to get some attention.

To all of you on the other end of this, making, organizing, setting up, and pushing these revamped Awards forward, thanks. You all are awesome and I know I'm not the only one who appreciates your efforts.
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Re: SmackJeeves Awards 2012-2013!

Postby Falconer » November 3rd, 2012, 12:05 pm

@BadBanana: Thank you :>

I'm sorry for being testy guys. It's been a bad week and I'm just easily frustrated with things right now. Sorry! ^^;

But I'm glad you like what you hear so far. :) Hope you're pleased with the results when we get there.
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