Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby eishiya » September 10th, 2013, 3:50 pm

Falconer wrote:As far as the spotlights go, the process for that is entirely different and not comparable to the smackies. As far I know, the process is people make suggests in the forum and then admin eventually decides which to put in the spotlight when he gets the time? So I'm not sure what good having a team would do unless admin was able to hand over some of the power over to them so that they could actively post the spotlighted comics on the site. I'm all for reworking the spotlight and making it more actively updated and better! However, that suggestion should go to him and not us. We have nothing to do with that.

A mod-run spotlight is my suggestion. It would be more work for Admin to implement that though, so it's not likely to happen. Nothing wrong with a forum-based spotlight, though! Mods can make news posts, which means that a forum-based feature can get the almost same exposure as the Smackies. The "yo, vote for me" exposure would be gone, though, but in my opinion, people who only come to vote aren't the target audience for this anyway.

Also, I'd be willing to host and modify the voting system for 2014 if you find yourself unable to, provided you can provide the code and at least some documentation to get me started (I can figure out the kinks and details). I'd love to pitch in with improving/redesigning it too, even though I'd rather not serve as a judge again.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby LibertyCabbage » September 10th, 2013, 5:08 pm

There seems to an implication that doing the Smackie Awards is inherently complicated and time-consuming, but it really isn't. It can be a simple, easy, and quick project if the team chooses to do it that way. The 2013 team chose to do the Awards in a complicated and time-consuming manner. What makes more sense to me would be to develop a simple process that's functional and won't take that long to do. The nominations started in September 2012, so a simple process like this would be designed to be completed by November 2012, with testing in December 2012 and the launch in January 2013. The goal would be to have a working awards system by November 30th, and any optional stuff not done by that date would be cut. In the context of my earlier suggestion, this would mean five categories of three webcomics each, with "exposing readers to new comics" and "SJ's culture" being pushed to next year's awards if there isn't enough time to implement them. My point's that a volunteer team is very capable of producing something if their goal's just to get something out in time that works instead of trying to create a perfect, completely fair, completely unbiased system that does everything.

Falconer wrote:The question then is what happens in 2014? If I don't help with the website, we can't use the same system or improve it because I just don't know that there would be anyone will the skills and willingness to take it on, so that almost makes it an obligation for me. If I don't, do I risk the awards going back to the disaster they were before, simply because their options are now limited? Do I risk them making it more complex/complicated on themselves in attempt to compensate? I don't know, but I also don't know if I want to do it.
I really like what you coded, but the team could, hypothetically, spend five minutes creating "smackjeeves2013awards@gmail.com" and tell people to e-mail their vote, and it would work and be done on time.

mitchellbravo wrote:I just think there simply isn't enough manpower to enact the changes you've prescribed.
If you have a small team, then they just need to do a small project. No. 1, to me, is making deadlines, not making stuff that's awesome. I feel the same way about blogging or making comics; if a webcomic updates Tuesday mornings, there should be a new page Tuesday morning, even if the creator didn't have the time and energy that week to make a great page.

eishiya wrote:...that said, the 2013 Smackies aren't over yet, and perhaps I should hold off on feedback and suggestions until it's all done.
I know, and I feel a little bad since the team spent a lot of time on this and should have time to chill and feel good about accomplishing something. But it's on my mind and I have stuff I wanna say, and I'd rather get it out now than write it down and file it away for later.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby mitchellbravo » September 10th, 2013, 6:34 pm

Spoiler! :
LC, I appreciate your suggestions, but like, really, it's coming across a little arrogant. Like I'm glad you have all these super simple solutions to the issues we've seen and raised, but consider maybe that we were *intending* for the results we have, albeit that we would have liked the timeline to run a bit faster than it did.

Like this:
My point's that a volunteer team is very capable of producing something if their goal's just to get something out in time that works instead of trying to create a perfect, completely fair, completely unbiased system that does everything.

Okay, but the latter was our goal. We saw that fairness was an issue that was important to the community and we wanted to come up with a way to make that work better.

If you have a small team, then they just need to do a small project. No. 1, to me, is making deadlines, not making stuff that's awesome. I feel the same way about blogging or making comics; if a webcomic updates Tuesday mornings, there should be a new page Tuesday morning, even if the creator didn't have the time and energy that week to make a great page.

This is something you and I have discussed before elsewhere, and we just have to agree to disagree. And really, for this awards thing, deadlines for online webcomic forum awards ceremonies tend to be less important to people than real life issues. Like, people cannot get to their computers to do the things they were going to do type issues, or people just becoming suddenly unreachable type issues.
And again, what are you designating being a small team? One person? A few people? Because most of our tasks in the team were one-person tasks, and what happens when that one person drops out? If it's a few people, where are we getting those few people from? I said there's not enough manpower not because I was really excited to use the word manpower, but because there are literally not that many people using this forum and even less when you take it down to people willing to invest time in this sort of thing and then even less when you take it down to the number of people who HAVE the time to invest in it, no matter how small their part might be. It could be the simplest task, but if they don't have the time, they don't have the time. Whether it's because of work or personal issues or whatever.

I know, and I feel a little bad since the team spent a lot of time on this and should have time to chill and feel good about accomplishing something.

Yeah, I'd like that, too.

I don't really know what else to say, because every thing I bring up, you seem to have this obvious clear solution for, despite the fact that me and falc were the ones (of the people posting here in this conversation) working on this thing for the past year. I'm 100% sure you don't mean it to come across this way but that's condescending. We didn't come up with our method of doing things out of the blue just for funsies to make things difficult for no reason, we (the team as a whole) tried to circumvent issues in the past and that is how we came to the formula we used. Some of the decisions were "lesser of two evils" choices, but I think that on the whole things worked out pretty well. We were VERY late, yes, and that sucked, but we aren't getting paid for this, and we tried our damned best to get things done in a reasonable time frame but there's only so much we can do as a bunch of disconnected individuals geographically scattered all over the world.

Spoilered because the awards are for fun and people should enjoy reading comics they haven't read yet and I'm being a party pooper!
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby LibertyCabbage » September 11th, 2013, 10:18 am

If you wanna feel upset about it, that's your choice. I think I've been pretty chill. I mentioned some things I like about the awards and gave some ideas for the next awards. Like I said, it's not my problem what you guys wanna do with your free time.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby Smackie Awards » September 11th, 2013, 12:45 pm

A Brief Announcement!

We had 3 categories that had less than 15 nominations, and so these categories will be open for voting only the last week as you will be voting for them all at once (no rounds). Week 3 starts September 17th and all votes must be in BEFORE the 24th.

If you'd like to be prepared, you can find the comics in advance on the list of all comics entered.

The 3 categories are: Autobiographical, Short Story Collections, and Yuri.

Happy voting!!
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby The_Hankerchief » September 11th, 2013, 3:35 pm

LibertyCabbage wrote:If you wanna feel upset about it, that's your choice. I think I've been pretty chill. I mentioned some things I like about the awards and gave some ideas for the next awards. Like I said, it's not my problem what you guys wanna do with your free time.


Spoiler! :
In all seriousness, purely out of encouragement (and not being a dick), if you feel you have the solution and can improve upon our works, and you have the time and the inclination, then I urge you to please join next year's awards team. Like Mitchell said, this is an all-volunteer show and, while everyone involved worked their tails off, we can't exist on the internet 24/7. People still need to eat and sleep. Some of us are still in school. Many more of us have to work so we can not only afford a place to live and put food on the table, but also afford the computers and internet bill so we can get on here and organize this event. I know several people, Mitchell and Falconer included, that were in that boat. I myself am in the military, and I sometimes get put into situations where I can't get on the internet for a time. As a matter of fact, I actually won't be on the awards team next year, as I'll be deployed for six months. Unless you live in Mom's basement and don't have to work (no offense to people in that boat), your free time is pretty limited. If you have the time, I ask that you may take over my spot.

Further complicating things, not all of us live in the same time zone. Nikkinoodles is in England, SBM is in Ireland, Ryo, Falconer, and Mitchell are all on the East Coast, I was in Texas and now am in Alaska. Skype is capable of allowing us to all chat at the same time, but only if we're able to actually get onto it. Those in the UK are just waking up when I'm going to bed. Unless you either have a magic teleporter, or the money for all of us to fly to one central location and pay our room and board, there's really no way around that obstacle.

Anyway, once again, thanks for your input, but unless you want to help out next year, your criticism sounds a lot like incessant bitching, to which I can only say, "Nut up or shut up." (Half joking, mostly serious).

Thank you and have a nice day, sir.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby LibertyCabbage » September 12th, 2013, 1:50 pm

I might consider it later, but, like eishiya, right now I'm not that interested in awards in general.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby Mr. Neil » September 12th, 2013, 1:55 pm

Well, Dasien just started posting here again. I guess it's too late to be part of action or drama, but I do have some yuri elements to my comic. Though not the main focus, there definitely as a lesbian relationship in my comic, and romance between women will continue to be an undercurrent theme in my series in future chapters.

But I'm not sure if it qualifies in it's current state.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby The_Hankerchief » September 12th, 2013, 2:43 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:Well, Dasien just started posting here again. I guess it's too late to be part of action or drama, but I do have some yuri elements to my comic. Though not the main focus, there definitely as a lesbian relationship in my comic, and romance between women will continue to be an undercurrent theme in my series in future chapters.

But I'm not sure if it qualifies in it's current state.

Sorry boss, not to be a jerk, but you missed nominations by quite some time. You can feel free to have your readers nominate you next year, but we're voting on the finalists now.....
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby Nikkinoodles » September 14th, 2013, 3:41 pm

The_Hankerchief wrote:
LibertyCabbage wrote:If you wanna feel upset about it, that's your choice. I think I've been pretty chill. I mentioned some things I like about the awards and gave some ideas for the next awards. Like I said, it's not my problem what you guys wanna do with your free time.


Spoiler! :
In all seriousness, purely out of encouragement (and not being a dick), if you feel you have the solution and can improve upon our works, and you have the time and the inclination, then I urge you to please join next year's awards team. Like Mitchell said, this is an all-volunteer show and, while everyone involved worked their tails off, we can't exist on the internet 24/7. People still need to eat and sleep. Some of us are still in school. Many more of us have to work so we can not only afford a place to live and put food on the table, but also afford the computers and internet bill so we can get on here and organize this event. I know several people, Mitchell and Falconer included, that were in that boat. I myself am in the military, and I sometimes get put into situations where I can't get on the internet for a time. As a matter of fact, I actually won't be on the awards team next year, as I'll be deployed for six months. Unless you live in Mom's basement and don't have to work (no offense to people in that boat), your free time is pretty limited. If you have the time, I ask that you may take over my spot.

Further complicating things, not all of us live in the same time zone. Nikkinoodles is in England, SBM is in Ireland, Ryo, Falconer, and Mitchell are all on the East Coast, I was in Texas and now am in Alaska. Skype is capable of allowing us to all chat at the same time, but only if we're able to actually get onto it. Those in the UK are just waking up when I'm going to bed. Unless you either have a magic teleporter, or the money for all of us to fly to one central location and pay our room and board, there's really no way around that obstacle.

Anyway, once again, thanks for your input, but unless you want to help out next year, your criticism sounds a lot like incessant bitching, to which I can only say, "Nut up or shut up." (Half joking, mostly serious).

Thank you and have a nice day, sir.


I would like to add to this discussion but don't want to derail the rest of this thread so it's gonna be in spoilers.

Spoiler! :
LibertyCabbage wrote:There seems to an implication that doing the Smackie Awards is inherently complicated and time-consuming, but it really isn't. It can be a simple, easy, and quick project if the team chooses to do it that way. The 2013 team chose to do the Awards in a complicated and time-consuming manner.

Hank's right, the multiple time zones that we had to account for really didn't help that much.The Awards themselves didn't take that much time. BUT, and this is a big BUT, life happens, stuff gets in the way. Just to show you, here is the story of what happened to me in the months since I volunteered to help with the Awards. I don't want to sound like I'm whining about my life and desperately trying to get sympathy. I'm not. This little story is just a show for how complicated life can get in a matter of a few months.

When I first volunteered to help with the Awards I was mostly healthy and unemployed but thankfully still living with my parents. The night (GMT time) of our first meeting I was there but then got pulled away as my sister almost had to go to hospital. She didn't have to go thankfully (turns out it was just a panic attack made worse by having asthma and tonsillitis). Then I got a work experience job in November that left me exhausted and unable to give my all to the Awards. THEN at the beginning of 2013 I was diagnosed with depression due to long term unemployment and lack of social life, it had been brewing for a while, since the beginning of November possibly before and accounted for part of my exhaustion. By the end of March I found even getting out of bed a real struggle. I eventually managed to find some work as a freelance writer but that still wasn't enough and my depression continued to really affect my life. Then my parents and I made a link between my depressive episodes and my periods so I started on the pill to help deal with that which really helped. I did step back in to helping with the Awards at this point as I was feeling much better emotionally and physically. This was the point when we were narrowing down nominees for each of the categories. Out of all the organisation involved that really was the most time consuming part. Anyway shortly after that point I got a job in Germany and had to step back from helping organise the Awards. Mitchell kindly took over coralling everyone from what I've read and heard. The job in Germany didn't work out and I moved back to England where I managed to get a new job.
In that time these guys have managed to organise the site and finish narrowing down nominations AND start the voting process, all while holding down day jobs/jobs they hated/ jobs that took a lot of time from their free time.

This was all just ME. One person. Add in another 7 or 8 people who might have something similar happen to them or their own problems or distractions and you can possibly/hopefully see why and how it could take so long to organise something that at first glance seems quick and simple. LIFE HAPPENS!
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby TheSilverLeague » September 15th, 2013, 10:08 pm

I dunno if this is the right place to say this but given the discussion going on...meh!

Ahem.

I personally will be the first to volunteer to help out in the 2014 smackjeezes awards as a judge for the Sprite comics. figure I have a show on youtube where I review fan submitted sprites as a whole, why not expand and be a judge for the comics lol

so yah! If you need a guy to be the head of the Sprite section, sign me up!
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby eishiya » September 16th, 2013, 8:49 am

TheSilverLeague wrote:I dunno if this is the right place to say this but given the discussion going on...meh!

Ahem.

I personally will be the first to volunteer to help out in the 2014 smackjeezes awards as a judge for the Sprite comics. figure I have a show on youtube where I review fan submitted sprites as a whole, why not expand and be a judge for the comics lol

so yah! If you need a guy to be the head of the Sprite section, sign me up!

In previous years, all judges had to have a say in all sections, and I hope that doesn't change.
If you want to be a judge, you'll have to participate in all aspects of judging, not just selecting sprite comics. Having judges for certain sections might seem fair at first glance because it means having "experts" judge those sections, but it really just means more judges, less consistency, and more room for bias. It can also result in nominees that are overall less accessible, since the comics in each section will most likely be judged exclusively by the criteria for that specific section due to the judges' narrower scope. The goal of the awards is to expose all sorts of comics to a wider audience, afterall.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby The_Hankerchief » September 16th, 2013, 10:22 am

TheSilverLeague wrote:I dunno if this is the right place to say this but given the discussion going on...meh!

Ahem.

I personally will be the first to volunteer to help out in the 2014 smackjeezes awards as a judge for the Sprite comics. figure I have a show on youtube where I review fan submitted sprites as a whole, why not expand and be a judge for the comics lol

so yah! If you need a guy to be the head of the Sprite section, sign me up!

Actually, truth be told, we really didn't have judges this year. Due to complaints during previous years, we cut the judge positions almost entirely and came out with Falconer's "drag and drop" system. The only judge-like aspect was where we weedled down categories to 15 comics per, and that was pretty much it. The drag and drop system lets the voters do that. And now that it is in place, if it proves successful (which, I feel it has), the only real legwork for next year's awards team will just be sorting through nominations, and maybe pretty up the site, if they so desire to.

That said, if you'd still like to participate next year, glad to have you aboard. I'm sure a thread will pop up asking for volunteers for next year sometime in the near future; that'd be the place to sign your name up.
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby TheSilverLeague » September 16th, 2013, 9:52 pm

Honestly part of me volunteering for spriting in particular is because well... i dunno how to put this in a way that doesn't come off as snobby or anything but I feel like Sprite comes are more of the misunderstood or under appreciated genres, which is understandable mind you but never the less I still feel its one of the harder genres to just...grab anyone and ask them to pick the best from the worst without any kind of experience with the genre to actually make that assessment, because how can you tell what required a lot of work and what was truly just a "lazy" attempt at a comic?

Like I'm STILL utterly shocked that Simple Pixel never made the cut (I'll always suspect its partly cause it got nominated 2 years in a row and the staff wants other comics to have a chance, if I'm right, yay! I win a pony!). Or even the fact my comic is the only Pokemon comic that made it, lol.

Eh admiringly my desire to defend and strengthen the potential of sprite comes comes from stuff like listening to the Smackcast and in one of the episodes actually having to comment on stuff they said and basically fight the stigma that sprite comics are lazy and unoriginal works of someone with too much free time,

But alas, keep me informed. :)
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Re: Vote in the 2013 Smackie Awards!

Postby eishiya » September 17th, 2013, 8:46 am

TheSilverLeague wrote:Honestly part of me volunteering for spriting in particular is because well... i dunno how to put this in a way that doesn't come off as snobby or anything but I feel like Sprite comes are more of the misunderstood or under appreciated genres, which is understandable mind you but never the less I still feel its one of the harder genres to just...grab anyone and ask them to pick the best from the worst without any kind of experience with the genre to actually make that assessment, because how can you tell what required a lot of work and what was truly just a "lazy" attempt at a comic?

Like I'm STILL utterly shocked that Simple Pixel never made the cut (I'll always suspect its partly cause it got nominated 2 years in a row and the staff wants other comics to have a chance, if I'm right, yay! I win a pony!). Or even the fact my comic is the only Pokemon comic that made it, lol.

Eh admiringly my desire to defend and strengthen the potential of sprite comes comes from stuff like listening to the Smackcast and in one of the episodes actually having to comment on stuff they said and basically fight the stigma that sprite comics are lazy and unoriginal works of someone with too much free time,

But alas, keep me informed. :)

I can't speak for this year's judges, but in 2011 the team did have a spriter on the team, and another judge who is a pixel comic artist (but not a spriter).
Sprite comics are definitely a special case, on account of being a largely insular community within SJ and webcomics at large. Their inclusion in the awards is meant to reduce that insularity. However, that also means that accessibility is an important factor in a comic's nomination. A lot of sprite comics that are hits with spriters aren't accessible to other audiences. If you would rather see something where sprite comics are judged specifically by spriting standards and the spriting community's tastes, then a spriting-specific event would be better. Newcomers to the medium are likely more interested in interesting stories/jokes with effective delivery, so that's what the Smackies focus on.
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