Sprite Comics...

[JCM]

Bottom Line: With ALL Comics, Web-based or not it all comes down to the story-telling abilities of the writer and the artist (or in some cases only one person). Of course it was wrong of The DrunkDuck Community to just ignore it due to it being a sprite comic but it's not anyone's fault other than their taste in comics. It's like when people bash Superman for being too powerful.

They solved the Superman problem by making Kryptonite and the sprite comic problem can be solved by only one thing: Making more active good-quality sprite comics. They'll eventually overcome the cruddy ones and everyone will win.

I already tried running a sprite comic twice, failing twice. Never playing a video game in my life just takes away from the realism of them. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. If you're going to make a comic, you'll undeniably suck if you can't connect with the characters and their universe. Just having a pretty good idea of it isn't enough. And notice I didn't say sprite. Drawn comics will suffer from the same problem if they use unoriginal people, places, or things. Just thought I'd put in my two cents on that.

[BoyueF]

Well, who said the characters had to be from video games? I've seen sprite comics of fancharacters, not the actual characters.

[Yamataro]

Ok. Regarding sprite comics... Let's see, basically what this thread is boiling down to is the Bl/Gl Manga section of SJ, the straight Manga section of SJ (This includes ones that may have a short ref to GL or BL but it is not their focus), and Sprite comic section of SJ all getting in a hissy fit over wheather or not Sprite comics are and I qoute,

use someone else's work and make slight alterations then start complaining because people say you're being lazy, either admit you are being lazier than people who actually draw their stuff, or put the effort to good use.

or
Worth the read.

I think in truth that sprite comics, as "Easy" as they are to do, are a way for people to get public attention fast.

I want to start this by saying this, Making a GOOD sprite comic takes hours of work. It's not like I slap a bunch of charecters on a BG and put no effort into it. I come up with story, charecter's beliefs, and all around good presentation to just about any comic I sprite. Sure, when I started off I sucked. Horribly. Just because some noob puts together a 5 minutes comic, doesn't mean we all do it. Sprite comics should be judged on Effort, not on weather or not they are sprite comics. I'd rant more, but I got to get to my next class. Later.

[SuperBiasedMan]

Ok. Regarding sprite comics... Let's see, basically what this thread is boiling down to is the Bl/Gl Manga section of SJ, the straight Manga section of SJ (This includes ones that may have a short ref to GL or BL but it is not their focus), and Sprite comic section of SJ all getting in a hissy fit over wheather or not Sprite comics are and I qoute,

use someone else's work and make slight alterations then start complaining because people say you're being lazy, either admit you are being lazier than people who actually draw their stuff, or put the effort to good use.

or
Worth the read.

I think in truth that sprite comics, as "Easy" as they are to do, are a way for people to get public attention fast.

I want to start this by saying this, Making a GOOD sprite comic takes hours of work. It's not like I slap a bunch of charecters on a BG and put no effort into it. I come up with story, charecter's beliefs, and all around good presentation to just about any comic I sprite. Sure, when I started off I sucked. Horribly. Just because some noob puts together a 5 minutes comic, doesn't mean we all do it. Sprite comics should be judged on Effort, not on weather or not they are sprite comics. I'd rant more, but I got to get to my next class. Later.

Yeah, that quote is a little out of context, I was specifically talking to the OP because of his attitude.
I don't consider all Sprite comics inherently lazy, but I think that a lot of them are, and they are generally used as a way of not having to draw stuff.
Some sprite comic artists will make their own sprites, which I respect, but if you're using sprites that someone else has made, you've already started off taking an easy route.
I have no problem with someone taking an easy route either, I made stick comics so it'd be hypocritical, but at least accept that you are putting in less work than others.

The thing aboutt he public attention thing, is that for a lot of readers that doesn't work. I actually avoid sprite comics because the way they're written is generally either poor humour or stories that run for too long (basically both are due to the high number of comics that end up being made because it usually doesn't take as long).

Everyone has to write their comics, that's not in any way unique to sprites. If a drawn comic is badly written I wont follow it for the art, bad writing is bad writing. And no, I don't think that sprite comics are better for being 'more focused' on the writing, because that's just nonsense. (I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone, I just vaguely remember hearing that argument)

[Yamataro]

The thing aboutt he public attention thing, is that for a lot of readers that doesn't work. I actually avoid sprite comics because the way they're written is generally either poor humour or stories that run for too long (basically both are due to the high number of comics that end up being made because it usually doesn't take as long).

Everyone has to write their comics, that's not in any way unique to sprites. If a drawn comic is badly written I wont follow it for the art, bad writing is bad writing. And no, I don't think that sprite comics are better for being 'more focused' on the writing, because that's just nonsense. (I'm not sure if that makes sense to anyone, I just vaguely remember hearing that argument)

And I understand your point on that. Some comics are made by noobs who have no earthly idea of what they are doing. I never said or heard that sprite comics are "More focused" on story, cause that in itself is BS. When I said good comic, I meant comics that have nice sprites, backgrounds, jokes, and story lines. I don't mean the blue and green horrible background, the shitty recolored sprites, and the "I'm the god of this comic" storyline. Those are the comics that don't deserve to be called comics, but more of a self pittying piece of crap that should never have come to the internet. Just because SOME comics do that, doesn't mean we ALL do it. There are some GREAT comics that are sprited. But due to the recolor population, our rep has ben trashed.

[Savaril]

I've yet to see a good sprite comic that features recolors, aside from Bob and George, sadly.

[gun21]

I avoid sprite comics these days, because if you click on a spriters profile it turns out they have 40 bajillion author collaborations, all of which are shit.

Yes. I am generalizing all sprite author insert collaborations as crap, but they are crap.

[JCM]

I avoid sprite comics these days, because if you click on a spriters profile it turns out they have 40 bajillion author collaborations, all of which are shit.

Yes. I am generalizing all sprite author insert collaborations as crap, but they are crap.

I'm sorry, but what do sprite comics and their spriters have to do with any author comics they may have? If you don't want to read those, don't, but refusing to read sprite comics because of their connection is extremely judgmental.

[JCM]

Sorry for the double post, but I thought you guys might have wanted to know what Dan himself's opinion of sprite comics was.

The thing about sprite comics, for the most part, it's really, largely, kind of a community based thing. Sprite comics tend to be made by 12 and 13 year old boys, and that's not always the case, but something about it. Kids just really like making comics with sprite characters and it's kind of a way for them to connect over the internet and a lot of times that's actually the section of the site that gives me the most trouble when it comes to the babysitting aspect. But most of the time, I think it's probably not a bad creative outlet for kids. And they're not known for being the most artistically developed comics, but whatever, they're having fun doing their own thing so I'm completely fine with it.

[Yamataro]

Sorry for the double post, but I thought you guys might have wanted to know what Dan himself's opinion of sprite comics was.

The thing about sprite comics, for the most part, it's really, largely, kind of a community based thing. Sprite comics tend to be made by 12 and 13 year old boys, and that's not always the case, but something about it. Kids just really like making comics with sprite characters and it's kind of a way for them to connect over the internet and a lot of times that's actually the section of the site that gives me the most trouble when it comes to the babysitting aspect. But most of the time, I think it's probably not a bad creative outlet for kids. And they're not known for being the most artistically developed comics, but whatever, they're having fun doing their own thing so I'm completely fine with it.

I'm going to have to disagree with Dan. Not all of us are 12 and 13 years old. Most of the spriters I know and hang with are 16 and up. I myself am turning 18 in a week. Sure, I enjoy what I do. Sometimes, I feel really lazy and sprite comics. But, my sprites are not recolors. The only "Recolor" I own is more of a simple edit then a recolor. And this right here...

I avoid sprite comics these days, because if you click on a spriters profile it turns out they have 40 bajillion author collaborations, all of which are shit.

Yes. I am generalizing all sprite author insert collaborations as crap, but they are crap.

Is udder BS. I've joined some pretty bad collab comics. I don't do it cause they are/aren't crap. In fact, I know I've joined a couple that were absolute BS. The reason an author joins the collab comics is for 3 reasons. 1) Get out ideas or jokes that they cannot display in their own comic, 2) To make friends, and 3) To get away from the presure of one comic. I did it for all those reasons. If you don't like the collab comics, then don't read them. Don't judge an author because he/she joins a shitty author comic. If you do that, your more of a moron than I at first thought.

[Pyroman]

Sorry for the double post, but I thought you guys might have wanted to know what Dan himself's opinion of sprite comics was.

The thing about sprite comics, for the most part, it's really, largely, kind of a community based thing. Sprite comics tend to be made by 12 and 13 year old boys, and that's not always the case, but something about it. Kids just really like making comics with sprite characters and it's kind of a way for them to connect over the internet and a lot of times that's actually the section of the site that gives me the most trouble when it comes to the babysitting aspect. But most of the time, I think it's probably not a bad creative outlet for kids. And they're not known for being the most artistically developed comics, but whatever, they're having fun doing their own thing so I'm completely fine with it.

I'm going to have to disagree with Dan. Not all of us are 12 and 13 years old. Most of the spriters I know and hang with are 16 and up. I myself am turning 18 in a week. Sure, I enjoy what I do. Sometimes, I feel really lazy and sprite comics. But, my sprites are not recolors. The only "Recolor" I own is more of a simple edit then a recolor. And this right here...

I avoid sprite comics these days, because if you click on a spriters profile it turns out they have 40 bajillion author collaborations, all of which are shit.

Yes. I am generalizing all sprite author insert collaborations as crap, but they are crap.

Is udder BS. I've joined some pretty bad collab comics. I don't do it cause they are/aren't crap. In fact, I know I've joined a couple that were absolute BS. The reason an author joins the collab comics is for 3 reasons. 1) Get out ideas or jokes that they cannot display in their own comic, 2) To make friends, and 3) To get away from the presure of one comic. I did it for all those reasons. If you don't like the collab comics, then don't read them. Don't judge an author because he/she joins a shitty author comic. If you do that, your more of a moron than I at first thought.

I hate getting involved with these threads, but perhaps I can offer some clarification.
Dan stated that Sprite comics tend to be made by younger kids, and this is fairly true. Yes there are certainly bound to be people who are older, such as yourself, but what he was saying was simply that a younger demographic generally gravitates towards sprites more than an older one.

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I think the issue with Author collabs, and perhaps this is or isn't why Gun21 avoids them, is that when you join so many collaborations you become lost in a sea of other users, and your work is spread very thinly. When I open up a user profile, it's generally because I have seen some great artwork, or read a comic that I enjoyed by that user, and want to see more. When I open up a profile that is full of collaborations (and this isn't limited to Spriters, some manga artists fall prey to the same issue), I suddenly have no idea where to find new pieces. Sure I could trudge through all of your author collabs, but then I'm seeing mostly other people's work; and this is such a time-consuming process. Not to mention that when you cast your net over so many comics and collaborations, you can't honestly expect your artwork and humour to be a very high grade through them all. So then I'm stuck trying to find either your regular comic (which often isn't easy among a vast array of collab banners), or the collaboration in which the user puts the most effort into; because inevitably there are collabs they spend a lot of time with, and collabs they do not.

You also have to remember that when you are faced with a wall of banners you can quickly become overwhelmed. Which one is good? Which one is bad? Which one does the author post to regularly? This in itself can push visitors away.

For a lot of people seeing a page full of sprites is just not appealing, period. It's just like a page of Yaoi or a page of Game jokes; some people just don't like that stuff. But those people that can stomach sprites don't get much help from spriters. In fact, spriters seem to not want to make it easy to find their work. Having to put in a massive effort just to find an artists work is for most people far too much bother.

--------------------------

TL:DR?
Sprite collabs are not inherently a bad thing, but when you join 30 collaborations and run several comics it is hard to imagine that the quality will be at all good. Sure, some people might be able to pull this off, but for the most part it's not exactly common. In addition, having to work through pages and pages of other people's work just to view the work of the author you came for is often too much effort. Part of the trick with any website/promotion etc., is keeping visitors interested; but making a user jump through so many hoops can be a very real turn off.

[Yamataro]

I hate getting involved with these threads, but perhaps I can offer some clarification.
Dan stated that Sprite comics tend to be made by younger kids, and this is fairly true. Yes there are certainly bound to be people who are older, such as yourself, but what he was saying was simply that a younger demographic generally gravitates towards sprites more than an older one.

----------------

I think the issue with Author collabs, and perhaps this is or isn't why Gun21 avoids them, is that when you join so many collaborations you become lost in a sea of other users, and your work is spread very thinly. When I open up a user profile, it's generally because I have seen some great artwork, or read a comic that I enjoyed by that user, and want to see more. When I open up a profile that is full of collaborations (and this isn't limited to Spriters, some manga artists fall prey to the same issue), I suddenly have no idea where to find new pieces. Sure I could trudge through all of your author collabs, but then I'm seeing mostly other people's work; and this is such a time-consuming process. Not to mention that when you cast your net over so many comics and collaborations, you can't honestly expect your artwork and humour to be a very high grade through them all. So then I'm stuck trying to find either your regular comic (which often isn't easy among a vast array of collab banners), or the collaboration in which the user puts the most effort into; because inevitably there are collabs they spend a lot of time with, and collabs they do not.

You also have to remember that when you are faced with a wall of banners you can quickly become overwhelmed. Which one is good? Which one is bad? Which one does the author post to regularly? This in itself can push visitors away.

For a lot of people seeing a page full of sprites is just not appealing, period. It's just like a page of Yaoi or a page of Game jokes; some people just don't like that stuff. But those people that can stomach sprites don't get much help from spriters. In fact, spriters seem to not want to make it easy to find their work. Having to put in a massive effort just to find an artists work is for most people far too much bother.

--------------------------

TL:DR?
Sprite collabs are not inherently a bad thing, but when you join 30 collaborations and run several comics it is hard to imagine that the quality will be at all good. Sure, some people might be able to pull this off, but for the most part it's not exactly common. In addition, having to work through pages and pages of other people's work just to view the work of the author you came for is often too much effort. Part of the trick with any website/promotion etc., is keeping visitors interested; but making a user jump through so many hoops can be a very real turn off.

That is very understandable. But hating an author because they join 100 and 1 collabs doesn't mean that Spriter's works are not worth any of it as that one guy was saying. The collabs are pretty easy to spot. Either it will be by banner, or just by seeing how many authors are authoring that comic. That is why on my own personal projects I never put Cameos in the banner, I never allowed other authors to author my comic, and I usually advertise my other works on the comics themselves, making it easier to find and access. But to hate on an author and all the spriting community just because of author collabs is just plain idiotic. Don't you agree Pyro?

[Pyroman]

I absolutely agree, and am not excusing Gun21 if that is their viewpoint. I am merely positing that although you may take into consideration the viewers of your comic, there are many, many authors who just don't. One problem with Sprites is the same issue that plagues all artforms in some way or another; and that's that there will always be more people who suck at it, than people who are great. Now that in itself isn't necessarily a big issue, but the problem arises when the sucky comics are the first thing you see when introduced to the artform. So for example, a lot of older people hate on Manga and Anime because often their only foray into that area is a crappy morning cartoon. It tarnishes their viewpoint on the whole style -- just like people have a tarnished view of sprites. Search for Sprite comics on SJ and 95% of them will be rubbish, made by kids and in the middle of some big argument with another 8 spriters.
Don't get me wrong, I'm on Dan's side with this; I believe that it's a wonderful creative outlet for kids who want to make comics but are embarrassed or worried about their art skills/don't have the time to commit. But the fact is that when someone new to spriting comes along, it's just not easy to find a quality comics. Sure you could come here, complain about it and get the same 5 comics (Bob and George, 8-Bit theater etc); but just searching around is unlikely to net you anything great.

And that's the main problem. It's the same problem Yaoi manga and superhero comics and game comics and so many other styles face. There is an abundance of these themes, and it becomes increasingly hard to sort the wheat from the chaff; especially on a site like SJ in which good art alone can net you 1000 fans.

People are inherently lazy, and when you present them with a page of banners that, due to the style, look almost identical; they have no way of knowing which are good or bad. When you search for hand-drawn/digital comics, it's a little easier to judge quality when you have an piece of sample art to base it off. And even though it does not represent how good the story will be, it at least tells you the artist has worked for a long time to get where they are.
Again that's not saying some spriters haven't worked hard over a long period of time, but rather that you just can't tell. Because spriters use generic sprites, and few make customs, it's very difficult to gauge quality, and so for most people it results in being far too much effort.

People are literally just that lazy.

[Yamataro]

I absolutely agree, and am not excusing Gun21 if that is their viewpoint. I am merely positing that although you may take into consideration the viewers of your comic, there are many, many authors who just don't. One problem with Sprites is the same issue that plagues all artforms in some way or another; and that's that there will always be more people who suck at it, than people who are great. Now that in itself isn't necessarily a big issue, but the problem arises when the sucky comics are the first thing you see when introduced to the artform. So for example, a lot of older people hate on Manga and Anime because often their only foray into that area is a crappy morning cartoon. It tarnishes their viewpoint on the whole style -- just like people have a tarnished view of sprites. Search for Sprite comics on SJ and 95% of them will be rubbish, made by kids and in the middle of some big argument with another 8 spriters.
Don't get me wrong, I'm on Dan's side with this; I believe that it's a wonderful creative outlet for kids who want to make comics but are embarrassed or worried about their art skills/don't have the time to commit. But the fact is that when someone new to spriting comes along, it's just not easy to find a quality comics. Sure you could come here, complain about it and get the same 5 comics (Bob and George, 8-Bit theater etc); but just searching around is unlikely to net you anything great.

And that's the main problem. It's the same problem Yaoi manga and superhero comics and game comics and so many other styles face. There is an abundance of these themes, and it becomes increasingly hard to sort the wheat from the chaff; especially on a site like SJ in which good art alone can net you 1000 fans.

People are inherently lazy, and when you present them with a page of banners that, due to the style, look almost identical; they have no way of knowing which are good or bad. When you search for hand-drawn/digital comics, it's a little easier to judge quality when you have an piece of sample art to base it off. And even though it does not represent how good the story will be, it at least tells you the artist has worked for a long time to get where they are.
Again that's not saying some spriters haven't worked hard over a long period of time, but rather that you just can't tell. Because spriters use generic sprites, and few make customs, it's very difficult to gauge quality, and so for most people it results in being far too much effort.

People are literally just that lazy.

That is one thing I hate. Yes, there are a lot and I mean A LOT of bad sprite comics. But just because they are a sprite comic, people don't give it a chance. This is how i judge a comic. I read the first 10 pages. If it's good, I'll continue. If not, I'll look at the last 10 pages and see if the author improves. If yes, I go back to the beginning and start reading. If no to both of these, I'll leave the comic. Sometimes I'll see that comic again and will give it a do over to see improvement. If I see NONE what so ever, I forget the comic and move on. I'm just saying, give the comic a chance. Don't just say, "Oh it's a sprite comic. It's crap. Let's go" You know?

[Pyroman]

But see that's exactly the issue. There are just too many comics for people to be bothered doing that.
For most comics I do a similar thing. I look at the latest comic, see if the art is any good, then if I'm hooked I open up the first. If the story is good enough then I read the whole way through. But with sprites you hit this wall of comics, and you have no way to judge which ones you should start with, which ones you should ignore and so on. With other comics you have the ability to choose based on art quality, which at least lets you know whether your eyes will be bleeding when you open up the page. It's more of a consolation to have a level of quality art while you valiantly wade your way through pages and pages of comics in search of that elusive gem. Sprites don't necessarily have bad art, though as I have said, some people just don't like it, it's that the art is rigidly similar. There is only so much editing and changing you can do (without going custom), and so it becomes more and more tiresome to have to wade through hundreds of shitty comics in hopes that you might stumble across a good one.