Katran

[LibertyCabbage]

Webcomic: Katran
URL: http://katran.smackjeeves.com
Creator/s: "JoKeRcologne"
Run: 6/10-current
Schedule: About once a month
Section/s: Ch. 3

Website: In September 2010, the creator posted on the site, asking, "btw I got fan-arts should I upload them?" He never did, and I think he should definitely add them to the site. Having other supplemental pages on the site would be ideal as well, but as per an April 2012 posting, the creator's already working on adding a few.

The Halloween-colored layout seems to compliment the grayscale pages pretty well, and the white parts of the pages really stand out (in a good way) against the black background. Having the navigation buttons change color when hovered over's also a nice touch.

The creator recently started a Facebook page for the comic, which I think's a good idea. The page is scarce, though, and the timeline-style layout looks awkward, so I suggest the creator tries to update the page more often, and also tries to make it look a little more professional.

There are some cool bonus pages in the archives that explain some of the miscellaneous elements of the comic's setting, including the fictional language the characters use sometimes, but I expect some of the more casual readers won't realize the pages are there. They should be displayed more prominently, like in an "about" or "extras" page.

Lastly, the creator's only posted four pages so far for 2012, which is a very underwhelming pace for a webcomic. He should try to start updating twice a month, and preferably even more frequently than that.

Writing: It's a fun, high-energy comic that continually bombards the reader with exciting sequences and well-choreographed fight scenes. The chapter jumps right into the action per an in medias res style and never really slows down, frantically jumping between the dangerous situations of the various characters. This kind of writing works to the extent that the creator can constantly present dramatic and visually interesting pages; however, ultimately it ends up being a detriment to the comic, as a story can only sustain itself on adrenaline and flashy imagery for so long before it starts to become shallow and disjointed.

The main problem with the writing's that none of the characters or events are given any sort of context. I'll start with Nirrod, who's supposed to be the main character according to the comic's description, although I would've never thought this just from reading the chapter. There are a few scenes where he's shown hiding from soldiers, but the chapter doesn't try to explain why this seemingly minor and irrelevant character's given so much attention. Next is Reju, who's portrayed as being very important, as his captors have orders to keep him alive, and Zaira says on page 111, "If something happens to you, everything is lost." These aspects don't make sense in terms of the information provided to the reader in the chapter, nor does it make sense why Zaira helps Reju escape when he's presented as the general of the enemy forces. Lastly, Sa-Jeren's fight with the soldiers is cool 'n' all, but... uh... why are they even fighting in the first place? Theother enemy general, Moria, says, "The bounty shall be mine," but that doesn't help the reader understand what's going on much. I assumed Zaira's conversation with Reju would shed some light on the conflict, but he only briefly mentions a "coup against Mercho," a "High Council of Katran [...] abusing his position," and, a few pages later, "Tobrn, 'The Slaughterer of Kalimpur,'" all of which are cryptic references with no obvious relationship to the events in the chapter.

I assume these aspects are explained more in the preceding 100 pages, which I didn't read, and it'd be somewhat reasonable to fault my review for not taking the first two chapters into consideration. But I think a chapter of a work should, for the most part, be able to be read and understood on its own, and I'm confident that a more competent writer would've included in this chapter the basic, vital information required for it to make sense and for the scenes to have a reasonable context. At the very least, the creator always has the option to include an "about" page and/or a "characters" page, so that the reader can quickly get caught up with what's going on in the latest pages. From a reader's perspective, if I knew I had to read the chapters posted in 2010 before I could even begin to understand the current chapter, I'd probably just choose to read a different webcomic instead.

Art: Katran has a sleek and attractive manga style that's well-suited for the many action sequences in the comic. As I mentioned in the previous section, these fight scenes are dynamic and cleverly conveyed, and are certainly the highlight of the comic. The creator's also quite capable of drawing the different body types of the fighters, whether it's Reju's small and compact frame or Sa-Jeren's bulky and powerful frame, and this helps him make the comic's various battles more distinct -- Reju's fight's about speed and precision, while Sa-Jeren's fight's more about brute strength.

The inking's another standout feature, and the creator demonstrates expertise in his smooth, professional-looking line art, as well as in the many instances of hatching and crosshatching. The creator also shows a strong sense of composition, often utilizing darker imagery and silhouettes to help establish color contrast.

The main issue I have with the artwork's that there's little to no attention paid to the backgrounds, and it gives the scenes the vague sense of taking place in a generic, indistinct location. This is particularly problematic for a fantasy story, which generally have a noticable focus on depicting the imagined world. I consider the minimalistic approach of limiting the settings to mere outlines like "a village," "a field somewhere," and "the bad guys' headquarters" to be too simplistic for this kind of comic.

Overall: This comic will impress potential readers with its skilled artwork and action-packed scenes, but with such flimsy plot and character development, I don't see much incentive here for readers to stick around for future updates. The situation's a lot like what you get with high-budget action movies that have special effects galore but have lousy acting and a dumb story -- they're fun for a few minutes, but even the coolest visuals quickly begin to get tedious and leave you yearning for something more clever and substantial. That said, if Katran develops a greater focus on exposition and narrative, and manages to stick to a more palatable update schedule, I can see it potentially becoming a top-notch fantasy webcomic at some point.

[JoKeRcologne]

Yes for the schedule you are totally right... it is my fault and it is not ...I make this Comic when ever I got time. Sadly I don't have this much time left.

But for the cryptic references ...really be fair and read the two previous chapters first.
Nirrod is the main character but not in this chapter in the previous scenes is explained why he evade a contact with those soldiers ...and the "Sa-Jeren" is the Title of this Character named Sogre (also explained in the previous chapters) ...please think about the chapters more like a chapter of a book ...the hole story is book one "Ta Kinar de Peslo" ...if you open a book in the middle you will never get the relationship between the characters (you will get it but very slowly) and some turns and twists in the story will remain meaningless for you because you missed the beginning.

Maybe a character page would be really a good Idea.


But anyway ...I really thank you for your Review.
If book one is finished I would appreciate it if you would make a second review I like your style.

[LibertyCabbage]

My criticism's not even about "the relationship between the characters" and "some turns and twists," though. I'm referring to basic, fundamental questions about the narrative:

What's going on?
Who are the characters involved?
Why should I care about what's happening?

Answering these questions for the reader takes only a minimal amount of time and effort, which is why it's so off-putting that chapter 3 doesn't do it. Out of the dozens of pages of action scenes, the idea that you couldn't even spare one panel to convey why the people are fighting each other doesn't make any sense to me.

If book one is finished I would appreciate it if you would make a second review I like your style.

Thanks! I'm glad you like my reviews. Yeah, just send me a PM if you'd like me to review the next chapter sometime.

[JoKeRcologne]

What's going on?
Who are the characters involved?
Why should I care about what's happening?

All this questions are explained in the previous pages ...really, do you want a explanation if you start a book somewhere in the middle part? This doesn't make sense for me.
Or do you want a description of the previous chapter to the begin of the new one?
This could be done but wouldn't this be equal to a spoiler for someone who didn't read the previous pages??

I didn't notice such a "problem" on other online comics or books ...if I like the art and what I can get from the story I start from the first page ...I did it even on such masterpiece like SinFest what is a totally different genre.

[LibertyCabbage]

All this questions are explained in the previous pages ...really, do you want a explanation if you start a book somewhere in the middle part? This doesn't make sense for me.
Or do you want a description of the previous chapter to the begin of the new one?
This could be done but wouldn't this be equal to a spoiler for someone who didn't read the previous pages??

Those would be reasonable "band-aid" fixes, in the sense that the chapter's already posted and adding a "plot summary" section would be easier than, say, going back and changing all the dialogue. That's not really what I'm talking about, though; context is moreso something that a reader picks up naturally from the dialogue, captions, and artwork. It's not really discussed a lot because most writers do it automatically, and usually when it does come up, it's in a specific sense -- for example, if two characters who don't like each other are suddenly in a relationship, a reader could complain that the author doesn't give the relationship enough context.

I think if you tried to take some of the focus away from the action and concentrate more on character and plot development, then context will probably come on its own.

I didn't notice such a "problem" on other online comics or books ...if I like the art and what I can get from the story I start from the first page ...I did it even on such masterpiece like SinFest what is a totally different genre.

Like I said above, competent writers establish context intuitively. However, even the poorly written webcomics I've reviewed have had a better sense of context -- it's a problem specific to Katran. And while some readers might not be put off by subpar writing, others certainly will; for every reader who thinks, "I'll go to the first page so I can appreciate this," another reader might think, "I'm not enjoying reading this, so I'll go read something else." No matter how well-written your previous chapters are, it's not a legitimate reason to throw your plot out the window for the current one. And if you're disinterested in the writing, then there are probably plenty of writers out there who'd be more than happy to take over the reins.

[JoKeRcologne]

Now I know where the problem is ...I shouldn't have chaptered the first book... chapter 3 is mainly the fight arise from the previous story. You can't read the actual chapter without the knowledge of the chapters before.

Maybe to sub-divide the story into chapters was not the best Idea. I will think about this.

[LibertyCabbage]

Now I know where the problem is ...I shouldn't have chaptered the first book... chapter 3 is mainly the fight arise from the previous story. You can't read the actual chapter without the knowledge of the chapters before.

I still don't think you have the right approach. You're putting too much focus on the structure of the story as a whole, and in doing so, you're ignoring the story's substructures, which are also relevant, and can be broken down like this:

Story -> chapter -> scene -> page -> panel

If any of the substructures have problems, then the story suffers. The way the story's labeled and organized on the site's barely relevant. I'd say that the most blatant thing to fix is that the balance between the action and narrative's way outta whack. I understand it's supposed to be "the fighting chapter," but the narrative's just stretched far too thin over the 40-something pages, and the few exposition-heavy parts are anemic.

I suppose something you can do would be to skim through a few professional comics, and fit each page into an "action" category or a "narrative" category, or both, and then figure out what percentage of the comic's in each category. And then do the same with Katran. You could also try opening comics to a random scene in the middle and making a list of what narrative information that scene conveys to you, both through the writing and the artwork.

[JoKeRcologne]

ok ... you mention so many times "professional comics" any suggestions what I should read?


BTW. Katran was published 2004 in Germany... and I did never get such a critic, even with missing pages - (the pages with letters are new drawn to add the lost story parts)
...interesting to see, it seems on an international level exist a different understanding.

[eishiya]

Comics which are sold by the chapter sometimes include what is essentially a simplified in-story introduction to the major players (usually just name-drops) and plot in the form of characters blurting out their or the antagonists' plans and previous actions, things like that. Examples would be some Marvel comics, such as when Dr. Doom does anything drastic, someone makes a point of reminding the reader what he did once an issue until that arc is resolved. I've also seen it in a few shounen comics, because there the hope is that someone will pick up a copy of Shounen Sunday or whatever, read chapter 318, then go back and buy all the volumes of the manga.

The expectation is almost always that a reader will go back to chapter 1 to read the comic, with a few notable exceptions. One such exception is One Piece, which is so long that the creator deliberately put "jumping-in" points at certain points of the comic to encourage a new reader to keep reading without getting scared off by the huge number of books available. These jumping-in points happen every 25 books or so, hardly in every chapter. With other comics, readers can often jump in at the start of a new arc. For example, Marvel started the Dark Reign arc across its Avengers-related titles in 2008. It was the aftermath of the preceding Secret Invasion arc, but summarised its events enough that I could understand just about everything by reading from the first issues of Dark Reign-arc comics. Another manga example would be the Lost Agent arc in Bleach, which resets the main character's powers, starts with a timeskip, and slowly reintroduces old characters in addition to adding new ones. Again, these kinds of major jumping in points are very infrequent. Of course, a reader is still expected to at least want to read from chapter 1, even though they no longer have to.

Lengthy comics often include a brief summary of the comic in each issue or volume, and in a webcomic I think this would be best handled by an About page with a summary of the plot thus far, updated at the end of each chapter (or every 20-30 pages for non-chaptered comics). The point of this is not to save a reader from reading the earlier comics. The point is to remind the reader what happened since it's probably been a week+ since they read the comic, and possible weeks/months since the last major plot point! The downside of updating with only a page or a few every week xP

tl;dr: The expectation in most comics is that a reader will want to read from the beginning. Any redundant information given in a chapter is to give enough context to the current chapter so it can intrigue the new reader and make them want to read from the beginning, it is not to replace reading. Jumping-in points are great, but 3 chapters in is far too early for that.



I think chapter 3 of Katran does a decent job at this. There's enough context given as to why they're being chased (a bounty is mentioned). Characters' personalities are shown in quite a few bits. There's not enough about why they're fleeing in the first place, but that just makes me want to read from the beginning (I read chapter 1 a long time ago to review it and don't remember what happened other than the main character running around a lot, and have not read chapter 2, so I may as well be a new reader).

There is one thing chapter 3 does that makes me not want to read the earlier chapters, though: it offers no breathers. It's almost non-stop action/chasing with pauses that are too few and too short. It makes me think the rest of the comic is like this, and that's not something I want to read.

You might also be right that this extended action sequence should be one long chapter, as this chapter has no beginning/middle/end, making it rather jarring when taken on its own. However, I don't think making one 150+ page chapter is a good idea either. What this is is a failure at the planning stage. You could very well have a 3+ chapter arc with a lot of chasing and fighting, but you should not expect a reader to want to sit through that, whether as one chapter or 3+. Instead, the arc should be broken down into bite-size pieces (chapters), each with its own sub-story (namely, beginning, middle, and end, not necessarily a full resolution, since you do need some standing questions to lead into the next chapter). The beginning is also where you'd "conveniently" drop hints to new readers about what's going on, and remind old readers just in case they forgot, since it's probably been quite a while. These should be just hints, not a summary.
As fun as action is to read, even the biggest action fan needs a break from it. Please try to take this into account. I realize that most of your comic is already drawn, but perhaps in the newly-added pages, you could add some breathers where they're needed. Give people some time to think :]

[LibertyCabbage]

ok ... you mention so many times "professional comics" any suggestions what I should read?

Anything with a good amount of action in it. Virtually every mainstream American comic fits this description, although since you draw in manga style you may be more interested in action-oriented manga. Of course, every webcartoonist should be regularly reading comics anyways.

BTW. Katran was published 2004 in Germany... and I did never get such a critic, even with missing pages - (the pages with letters are new drawn to add the lost story parts)
...interesting to see, it seems on an international level exist a different understanding.

I dunno. I'm American, so maybe my reviews present an "American perspective." Although, I think the webcomic-reading audience is mostly American, so it's certainly a relevant group.

stuff

Thank you. I think you did an excellent job elaborating on what I was trying to convey about context, narrative, and story structure.

[amokschnecke]

The problem maybe really is, that the first chapter is very long, either it should have been divided into several to create more suspension. The problem here, Katran was already published as a printed book by a company, the reader holds the book with the pages in his hand, he can get an idea of how much is ahead of him. In the book form, that worked. Also, you either had to wait for the second part until it get's published or, if already obtained when available, you decide wether you read book 2 right after it. There are no chapter's there, in the book, the story parts and arcs are divided by the form of publishing and limited by the pagenumber given by the publisher.
A webcomic can show you the pagenumbers, but since it's ongoing, the number will change, and so does the impression of every new reader maybe. So the 2 medias and their differences should have been considered more in the planning, maybe in generall more chapter's, also so readers who do not want to finish all in one read have a reason to stop here or there.
Also, new reader's on the web will not know, how far the story will go. It was planned and announced, that Katran should have had become a run of six books around 150 pages each. 2 were done, but things changed, this is a new project now. Especially with all the new, re-edited parts and new ones. So, preparation of the reader, a building up on suspense would have been made better here in a different style. Chapterwise.
In character and story I find it very appealing, you get to now the characters fairly well in the first chapter's and then there's tension with the upcoming threat, which even starts more exposition to a bigger plot in the background, which we get to know about, but not yet it's cause and reason. Too much exposition here, as in other stories, would kill the tension and suspense, which makes it interesting to keep on reading.

I assume these aspects are explained more in the preceding 100 pages, which I didn't read, and it'd be somewhat reasonable to fault my review for not taking the first two chapters into consideration. But I think a chapter of a work should, for the most part, be able to be read and understood on its own, and I'm confident that a more competent writer would've included in this chapter the basic, vital information required for it to make sense and for the scenes to have a reasonable context.

Not sure if troll....
Really, you cannot argue about something you did not read, and it shows you didn't. ou mess up the military rank with the names and so on, you complain, that things are not explained to you, because YOU did not read them? You complain about missing info which isn't there, but it is, it's in the chapter's you did not read.
If you would start with "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" in the middle, you wouldn't get a thing, you would be confused dizzy. Serving a spaceship machine tea, why is he in his bathrobe, a falling whale and a flower pot.....wut?
Sorry, elaborating that subject would be an obsolete time vampire.

What's going on?
Who are the characters involved?
Why should I care about what's happening?

Answering these questions for the reader takes only a minimal amount of time and effort, which is why it's so off-putting that chapter 3 doesn't do it.

Chapter 3 is not supposed to do it. You complain about too much action, you just have seen the action parts.

context is moreso something that a reader picks up naturally from the dialogue, captions, and artwork.

If he reads the story in context, it naturally will.

I think if you tried to take some of the focus away from the action and concentrate more on character and plot development, then context will probably come on its own.

Just to clear this, are you related with longer stories? Lord of the Rings like or The early StarWars? Context does not come just by itself, surely, you can let your characters interact, but that's just part of it, in fact, character's need context to given and thrown in so they will be interesting.
Take Who framed Roger Rabbit. If taken out the murder, conspiration plot and innuendos out of that movie, what do you get? An alcoholic and a silly cartoon rabbit who will never meet.
And the later StarWars, the episodes, show very good, that just interaction of the characters ignoring content, will lead to a destruction of a story and boredom.

Like I said above, competent writers establish context intuitively.

No, we don't. We have a plan, we have a beginning and an end, we know, where our story needs to go and how to create tension and emotion. We can do so, because we have a plan. If you combine that with intuitively and other important aspects, then you get somewhere.

However, even the poorly written webcomics I've reviewed have had a better sense of context -- it's a problem specific to Katran.

Sorry, the problem is you. You judge about things you did not even read. Impossibooru.

No matter how well-written your previous chapters are, it's not a legitimate reason to throw your plot out the window for the current one. And if you're disinterested in the writing, then there are probably plenty of writers out there who'd be more than happy to take over the reins.

Still not sure if troll..........

if two characters who don't like each other are suddenly in a relationship, a reader could complain that the author doesn't give the relationship enough context.

No, that would be a plot hole, by plain definition a simple or big fault which can kill the entire feeling of a story. Read the first chapters, you won't find one.

If any of the substructures have problems, then the story suffers. The way the story's labeled and organized on the site's barely relevant. I'd say that the most blatant thing to fix is that the balance between the action and narrative's way outta whack.

Okay.....would you prefer something like the movie "The last Airbender", where you get every fucking five minutes told, what you just saw 5 minutes ago? The whole fucking movie? That's what it did, and it was annoying as hell. If you do that, the viewer or reader will get pissed, because clearly the author thinks, that you are a dumb, dull whatnot, which is not able to come to his own conclusions. That's one of the most annoying and avoidable things in general storytelling.
If you are too lazy to walk, don't complain that you are not moving.

Sorry, some of this sounds maybe more harsh than it is meant.

The point of this is not to save a reader from reading the earlier comics. The point is to remind the reader what happened since it's probably been a week+ since they read the comic, and possible weeks/months since the last major plot point! The downside of updating with only a page or a few every week xP

Exactly, here are we with the different media problem again. I already have the first two issues, and the expectation is, you sit down with it like with a book or collected manga/comic volume.

Katran as a story will change, as the JoKeR said, and maybe the chaptering should be more improved to better serve the needs or preferences of the net-readers. After all, it is an online comic now.
And yeah, the schedule sucks, and I have a vague idea of that what's coming, so for an online comic, it's much too epic long. After all, the author has a daytime job and is not being paid for just doing his comic. Maybe a shorter comic would have been better for starters.

Cheers,
schnecke

[mitchellbravo]

Do you really think that LC is trolling?

You disagree with his review, and he's harsher* than other reviewiers, but that doesn't make him a troll.


*I'll concede that "harsh" doesn't always mean "correct." Reviews are (ideally, highly planned out and fact-based) opinions. Someone else could come along and say the exact opposite of what LC has said. It doesn't mean his review is without merit, it just means he's going to have a different view of the comic than other people.

He is but one reviewer, and does not profess to speak for all humanity.

[amokschnecke]

You disagree with his review

I just disagree with judging a story that you just know certain parts of.

and he's harsher* than other reviewiers

The review is not harsh, but not well based. It's not a review, it's an opinion of someone who just read chapter 3, but tries to "review" the whole story on behalf of it. Does not compute.
A review can be harsh and devastating, as long as it's on the base of reason. That way also the author can learn by his faults and improve. As long as they are real faults and flaws, and not just opinions. People also like to throw these into one pot, but it's still different.
Just for example, an exposition to the characters in the third chapter in a running story is a fault.
Imagine this, you describe in a book or show in a movie, that there are people having a picknick in the green grass, an establishing shot.
And then, after three pages or 7 minutes in the movie showing the actors talking, having a snack, one of them suddenly shouts: Eeeeeey, we're on a meadow!

That would be just fitting or funny IF there's a reason for him to say that, but if the director or writer or reviewer thinks, that has to be there to explain.....do the math. If a kid sees a horse, and points at it and says "Horseyyyy" you say "yes, well done". If you and a friend are looking at a horse, and you lean over to him and say "That's a horse"......the reader/watcher will feel like your friend.
The reasons in the review don not have any substance. I think I got disturbed by the ignorance in there. He makes propositions which would kill a story he did not read....
OOOOOh, wait, I get it, he's not a troll, he's a Hollywood executive!
Anyway, that's my point, no hard feelings, I just wanted to state my point of view as well, because I think in the biggest parts, the review is unfair.

[eishiya]

For the record, my big wall of text was posted primarily in disagreement with LC, while conceding a few of his points (namely that jumping-in points and a little review is useful, not in nowhere near the amounts LC is suggesting).

I don't think LC is trolling, but I feel like he has unrealistic expectations, and I'm curious to find out where he got such expectations. I also think that even if Katran was exclusively a webcomic and not a printed book, my comments would still be true. The story is still all there for the reader to read.

[LibertyCabbage]

stuff

You mean there's an angry, arrogant, and foul-mouthed Internet poster who doesn't like a review I wrote?

Impossibooru.

I don't think LC is trolling, but I feel like he has unrealistic expectations, and I'm curious to find out where he got such expectations.

My only expectation here's that a reader who doesn't like a webcomic isn't gonna feel obligated to continue to read it.