Right to left, really?

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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby xkrazydog » June 15th, 2012, 8:40 am

MangaKnight wrote:I draw this way because I was born left handed and forced to switch to the right. For whatever reason even when drawing simple pinups... my hand tends to start on the upper right corner of the page. Although H0lyhandgrenade is also right. I also tend to do it for the reason that I'm more used to drawing a character facing left. Kinda just instinctively do that for some reason.


I'm not H0ly.

I advise everyone in the thread to draw a character facing left and another character facing right.
Then tell me which one is easier. (for me its easier for characters facing the left)
90% of the time those who draw right to left dont do it because "MANGA READS THIS WAY" but because when you draw a comic reading a certain direction it flows in that direction so to navigate the readers properly and not get awkward pause, they're faced with the dilemma of drawing characters and actions going in a direction they arent use to.
You can break this habit through practice.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby erase » June 15th, 2012, 10:17 pm

xkrazydog wrote:
MangaKnight wrote:I draw this way because I was born left handed and forced to switch to the right. For whatever reason even when drawing simple pinups... my hand tends to start on the upper right corner of the page. Although H0lyhandgrenade is also right. I also tend to do it for the reason that I'm more used to drawing a character facing left. Kinda just instinctively do that for some reason.


I'm not H0ly.

I advise everyone in the thread to draw a character facing left and another character facing right.
Then tell me which one is easier. (for me its easier for characters facing the left)
90% of the time those who draw right to left dont do it because "MANGA READS THIS WAY" but because when you draw a comic reading a certain direction it flows in that direction so to navigate the readers properly and not get awkward pause, they're faced with the dilemma of drawing characters and actions going in a direction they arent use to.
You can break this habit through practice.


I've never had issues with drawing character facing either way :I. Apparently it's because I was ambidextrous when I was younger.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby eishiya » June 16th, 2012, 8:30 am

I read this thread in bits and pieces over its course and don't remember everything that was said, so I apologize if I've repeated something.


erase: Some people also never have trouble with it because they learned to draw both ways from the beginning. Skew is almost inevitable at the beginning, but heads facing in either direction are susceptible to that. I was/am also ambidextrous, but I learned to draw in a rather... flawed way, so for a while I could only draw heads facing one way. At one point, I switched styles and started drawing heads facing the other way, and could not draw the first way any more (I always drew with my right hand then). So, I don't think handedness is as related to it as it seems; I think it's a habit that happens to arise based on handedness, but like krazy said, it's one that can be broken with practice.


I don't think that the reading direction has to do with how an artist draws heads, as any comic will have characters facing in all kinds of directions (or maybe 3/4 one way and the other, one of which may be drawn worse than the other, in the case of really limited artists). Correlation does not imply causation; I think the issue is more that there are a lot of artists who draw right to left who can only draw heads in one way, and who are just not good in general, and are right-handed because that's the majority... I am sure that if we look, we'll see the same proportion of left-to-right comics done by righties who draw heads facing the same way as the R-to-L artists. Maybe not as many by count, but that's because the current crop of young artists are heavily inspired by right-to-left manga because the market is inundated by it.

Most people seem choose right to left for these reasons, or a combination thereof:
1. It's what they're used to, because they mostly read manga
2. They want to emulate manga because their comic is "manga" (this is a crud reason)
Most of them do not consider the written language at all, and.. I find it hard to fault them because their audience grew up reading translated manga, so they can read the mismatched flow without being taken out of the comic. However, I think that this is an adaptation, they learn to jump back and forth on a page rather than allowing the page to lead them as the Japanese artist intended. In their own comics, they do not make use of that sort of flow either, but I wonder if that's related to this adaptation or just because they're not aware of the concept in general (many L-to-R artists aren't either). It is that natural flow that, for me, makes the difference, and it is why I make my comics left to right despite 95% of my comic reading material being manga, and why I prefer to read R-to-L comics with R-to-L text, and L-to-R comics with L-to-R text.

Also, there are some L-to-R comics drawn by Japanese artists who normally draw R-to-L (Ikaryaku and Nihei Tsutomu's Halo comic come to mind). They look and read just fine. I think this is because the artists know how to draw a comic well, can draw anything in any direction and make use of directional cues to guide the reader. For this reason, I think #1 above is a BS reason - an artist who knows what they're doing shouldn't be bothered by the direction their comic goes in, and should be able to choose their direction so that their intended audience can read it in the most effective way. The reason it does bother a lot of artists is probably because they don't think about their comic's structure enough, they just draw what they're used to seeing instead of dissecting it and figuring out why they should or should not use it. In short, I think a comic's reading direction should be whatever tells the given story best to its intended audience.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby Misteen » June 28th, 2012, 5:57 pm

This is a quite good reason
xkrazydog wrote:its because they cant draw facing left. its a huge handicap alot of artists have where they cant draw going in a certain direction. Comics are the same, it clashes when you read left to right but most of your characters/ actions read the opposite direction.


For me it has nothing to do with the language. I've been reading manga since I was a child and really I am not able to draw manga from left to right. Seriously. Once I was asked to write from left to right and in the end I did the opposite mirroring the pages with computer. I can't help it.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby mossi-mo » June 29th, 2012, 8:14 pm

I have actually worked on several pages with the orientation in the wrong direction before catching it because I grew up reading manga. It's a very tough habit to break. Even now, my flow sometimes switches between pages. I have to draw out my reading lines because of the flow. I definitely understand how so many people can ignore the natural flow of their language. When manga first started coming over, it was a big deal, most hardcopies that I own still have the "this manga reads right to left" page on the back (in english it would be the front) and I think I have a few shounen jumps that have the little reading glasses and arrows pointing the way to read.

Spoiler! :
But! If you start to plan properly, then the direction has nothing to do with the artist's ability. Those who say they can't draw faces going a certain direction have the luxury of computers to mirror, even if they draw traditionally. Practice destroys that inability fairly quickly, as does changing perspectives and directions. I really don't buy the excuses. Like novels, I really think that comics should work with the natural language. For one thing, it keeps character and SFX interactions consistent. If you mirror a Japanese manga, the most noticeable change is in the SFX. Almost all translations leave SFX in Japanese, because as any scanlator will tell you, changing that is like trying to change the entire panel. It's tough work and it's easier to explain the sfx. If you change a big どきどき! to doki doki! or even Thump Thump! You run the risk of throwing off the panel, or having to rearrange and re-draw. Mirroring it would cause the same problem.People who grow up reading manga don't think about that.No one does until they're the ones behind the pencil.


It all seems so effortless that when it comes down to reproducing something with the same feel, but few people realize the exact reasons. a L-R manga with a seamless manga feel can and has been done. Korean manwha reads L-R, and most of the big titles have a feel that is similar if not identical to Japanese manga. There's no such thing as "it can't be done" or "I can't do it because X" all it takes is a little pre-planning.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby motherfuckinglucifer » July 29th, 2012, 8:26 am

I draw/write right-to-left for a couple of reasons.

1) I actually write them in Japanese first, and then when I'm doing the final editing, I translate them into English.
2) I've only ever really been interested in Japanese comics / manga, so it's a format I understand and can work with.
3) I find 'left' easier to draw, and my comics flow that way.

Because I write them first in Japanese, and I draw in a 'manga' style, it feels jarring to me to go from left-right, but I think in the end it really comes down to the artist's preference.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby CityBreak » July 29th, 2012, 8:52 am

Personally I hate it when people try to create "real" manga. There's nothing inherently wrong with doing right to left but it's only good when done well by people who really know what their doing. I'd much rather see an okay looking left to right manga then a poorly done right to left. While we're on the subject, they could at least change where the next page button is on the page if your doing right to left because that just gets confusing. so instead of having First Page, Previous Page, Next Page then Latest Page you do it the other way round so on from the left you have Latest Page, Next Page, Previous Page the First Page. This would be much more enjoyable and less confusing. It would feel more like an authentic manga

Oh and one last thing, people for the love of God please can you be clear in your comic profile as to whether or not your comic is going to read Right to Left. I can't tell you how many times I've started reading a manga here on smackjeeves then found out about 10 pages in "wait a sec, why the fuck is he answering her before she's even said anything? now that's just bad story telling! WAIT, I'm reading this shit the wrong way! oh screw it, I can't be bothered!"
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby Troll » July 29th, 2012, 9:06 am

CityBreak wrote:it's only good when done well by people who really know what their doing. I'd much rather see an okay looking left to right manga then a poorly done right to left.

So you're saying that those who are not good enough in drawing are not allowed to draw R-L?
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby CityBreak » July 29th, 2012, 9:20 am

Troll wrote:
CityBreak wrote:it's only good when done well by people who really know what their doing. I'd much rather see an okay looking left to right manga then a poorly done right to left.

So you're saying that those who are not good enough in drawing are not allowed to draw R-L?


I'm saying that when it comes to right to left some people seem to confuse themselves so it ends up looking worse then it should. I'm not saying that you have to be a good drawer but I'm saying you really need to understand it before you dive straight in. Being a good drawer is just a plus
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby JoKeRcologne » July 30th, 2012, 2:48 am

Right to left is so 2011 ... the new trend is upside down.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby Jadiekins » July 30th, 2012, 6:35 pm

JoKeRcologne wrote:Right to left is so 2011 ... the new trend is upside down.

I used to draw upside down, but then it got popular. /hipster
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby SpiralPen » July 31st, 2012, 2:48 pm

Ha, my comic will right from BOTTOM TO TOP.

This stuff really just highlights how silly it is that people get upset about right-to-left formats. It's just a style difference. You can't complain to published works that their reading style is inconvenient to you, if you like it, you just get over it and read. The only reason people put up a fuss here is because this is a community of mostly non-professional artists who can be influenced by complaints. It wasn't made FOR YOU, don't complain that the method of presentation is bad because you find it cumbersome or confusing. Just say you don't care for it.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby Nordlys » July 31st, 2012, 3:24 pm

I understand if the comic is drawn for a japanese company. But it's really stupid to choose 'right to left' just to imitate japanese reading direction.
People that do this don't look more japanese, they just look more amateur. It's funny that they do that just because 'Japan is cool'
I did this thing once. I was 16, and i stopped at first page. And the reason to do that was that i wanted my comic looking like a real manga.
I have no problem by reading from right to left (not even upside-down or mirrored). But I'm a western, my mother tongue goes from left to right and so that's the right direction my comics should (and will) have.

I don't like comic sans font. The best font is trying to use your own handwriting, it fits more with your drawing style, if you have a good handwriting.
About characters facing only to one direction, i looked into one of my very old comics and I hadn't this problem. To me difficult depends from the character facial features, but I'm ambidextrous, so...
1 - Du skal tro at du er noe. 2 - Du skal tro at du er like så meget som oss. 3 - Du skal tro du er klokere enn oss. 4 - Du skal innbille deg du er bedre enn oss. 5 - Du skal tro du vet mere enn oss. 6 - Du skal tro du er mere enn oss...
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby eishiya » July 31st, 2012, 3:48 pm

Nordlys wrote:I don't like comic sans font. The best font is trying to use your own handwriting, it fits more with your drawing style, if you have a good handwriting.

Lettering isn't handwriting, it's drawing letters. If you draw your letters, your lettering probably won't look like your handwriting (whether your handwriting is good or bad), and it'll be consistent and legible. Anybody can learn to letter, their handwriting has nothing to do with it.

As much as I love hand-lettering and seeing hand-lettering in other comics, I don't think it's necessarily the "best." Some comics have art/story styles that work best with typed lettering. I definitely think that it never hurts to at least consider hand lettering, and a lot of the time it really is the most fitting option.
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Re: Right to left, really?

Postby Nordlys » July 31st, 2012, 4:00 pm

eishiya wrote:
Nordlys wrote:I don't like comic sans font. The best font is trying to use your own handwriting, it fits more with your drawing style, if you have a good handwriting.

[url]Lettering isn't handwriting, it's drawing letters. If you draw your letters, your lettering probably won't look like your handwriting[/url] (whether your handwriting is good or bad), and it'll be consistent and legible. Anybody can learn to letter, their handwriting has nothing to do with it.

As much as I love hand-lettering and seeing hand-lettering in other comics, I don't think it's necessarily the "best." Some comics have art/story styles that work best with typed lettering. I definitely think that it never hurts to at least consider hand lettering, and a lot of the time it really is the most fitting option.


Ops, sorry, i didn't knew that. On some magazine i read they talked about 'writing' and 'having a natural firm handwriting' .
1 - Du skal tro at du er noe. 2 - Du skal tro at du er like så meget som oss. 3 - Du skal tro du er klokere enn oss. 4 - Du skal innbille deg du er bedre enn oss. 5 - Du skal tro du vet mere enn oss. 6 - Du skal tro du er mere enn oss...
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