Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby JoKeR » May 26th, 2018, 2:32 pm

eishiya wrote:There's no difference in time saving, but there are two other important differences:
1. Flexibility. You can input your own recipes and tweak existing ones when you use a food printer, but it's pretty tough to find a food delivery service that'll make anything you want rather than making you choose from a premade menu. In addition, you don't have to be home to accept the arriving food. You can set the printer to get cooking when you're still e.g. at work, and it'll be just cooling off right as you get home, which can be time savings.
2. In the long term (and if cartridge companies don't charge a ridiculous convenience premium), price. It's a higher start-up cost, but it also means no delivery fees for every meal. There are delivery fees to order the cartridges, but these are going to be cheaper since they're regular packages and don't need to be ordered as frequently as fresh meals.

You get all the ingredients in mashed conditions, inside those cartridges... And then this Printer is "cooking" your meal.
If this is really preferable, just to have more time to work (being productive), than is this becoming a very sad world.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby eishiya » May 26th, 2018, 3:00 pm

The ingredients in the cartridges are mush (or powder), but the resulting printed food doesn't have to be mush at all. Baked goods start out as mashed ingredients too xP

Even if it was mush though: I hate cooking, so I'd rather eat affordable, yummy, nutritious mush than spend time cooking. I've always looked at those "gross" food extruders in sci-fi movies and thought they were a great idea xP The only reason I cook at all is because currently I can't get the same nutrition from obtainable and affordable pre-prepared meals.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » May 26th, 2018, 5:45 pm

Wut? You still have to cook all the ingredients before you can mush them and squeeze it out of a "print cartridge". You only add the additional step of printing it. instead of eating it like it is. :| ???

That can be done at a production plant where the food material can also be pureed or otherwise broken down as needed... just as food is processed now, only towards a different foal.

:shock: ok sorry but this is nonsense ...do you know what field ration are? What you describe is an old hat. That whole food printing stuff has only the purpose to be fancy.

A field ration or MRE is prepackaged food. It comes in a fixed form and unless you can order a second type, you're stuck with the one. The point of a food printer is you can take various ingredient types and make what you want. Like how you can take a deskjet ink cartridge and print whatever document you want, only with more types of "ink" and a wide range of source "documents". Here's a link to the concept of additive printing, of which food printing is one type of several:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3D_printing

You want people to have a nutrient meal? Teach them to cook. A simple soup with tons of vegetables and a little meat has more nutrients than all those ready-made meals.

You can't teach people who don't want to learn, or don't want to invest the time in learning... or to use those skills. Modern society has a major problem with people eating badly out of convenience; food printers could (once mainstream and affordable) give people an equally or more convenient means of eating but that could be much healthier. That's the point.

You want to help poor people to have life-sustaining nutrients? Field rations for a starter and then food supplies ...then give them a leg-up so they can help themselves in the long run.

Sure, but food printers will work better, as noted above due to their flexibility and greater potential. If people don't want to eat field rations, it's not going to motivate anyone but the most desperate, and that just isn't a good way to solve problems in general.

I still don't see the purpose for printing food. Do you maybe have more examples for its usefulness?

I hope you found the above information as a good answer to this question.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » May 26th, 2018, 5:47 pm

Discussion on future tech - Saturday Sandbox for May 26th, 2018!

Here's the topic for today - please share your thoughts in a comment!

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The subject of superhuman abilities is a topic in transhumanist circles. The main issue with them is uneven distribution of the abilities, leading to people who are inherently more or less capable. It seems to be more of an issue with "invasive" mods (such as bionics) as that may well provide a better or more convenient (or more hidden?) way to get those superhuman abilities; if it was an exoskeleton or attachable brain interface, more people could use it, thus lessening the problem. Personally I feel that something should be done to keep this under control, since it IS true that a multiclassed society based on pure ability would cause problems. However, I feel the main way to avoid problems is to focus on things that anyone can use, not to stop people from gaining "superhuman" abilities. This also means working to make them affordable as soon as possible. If the former was done, I wouldn't have a problem with such bionics being regulated because the main benefit then would be that they would be harder to notice... or disable, if needed.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby Oly-RRR » May 26th, 2018, 8:24 pm

sunseeker25 wrote:However, I feel the main way to avoid problems is to focus on things that anyone can use, not to stop people from gaining "superhuman" abilities.

Considering that we're still at the point where a lot of "common" people can't afford decent medical care (such as good prosthetics and assistive equipment or even medication) I think the problem of access to bionics will always revolve around the problem of wealth distribution on the planet (or even in each country). Right now we already live in a world where people's abilities are hindered by how much (or rather how little) money they have and what sort of family/class/country they are born into and so on and I don't expect that changing drastically in the foreseeable future.

Honestly I am bothered by the idea of governments curtailing access to anything (except firearms) because they are veeeery good at it when it comes to ordinary people (from the Great Chinese Firewall to the constant debate over legalizing light drugs) but aren't doing much when it comes to curtailing the access the 1% of people has to the most of wealth on this planet. :roll:
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » May 28th, 2018, 6:29 pm

Considering that we're still at the point where a lot of "common" people can't afford decent medical care (such as good prosthetics and assistive equipment or even medication) I think the problem of access to bionics will always revolve around the problem of wealth distribution on the planet (or even in each country). Right now we already live in a world where people's abilities are hindered by how much (or rather how little) money they have and what sort of family/class/country they are born into and so on and I don't expect that changing drastically in the foreseeable future.

Yeah well we can hope that competition will bring the prices down eventually. I can go to Wal-mart and get some pretty effective medicine for $4. Not the newest and doesn't cover everything within the past 7 years (the length of patent protection) but I can see how there's a pattern there for the future. Also, prosthetics have come down in price a lot with the advent of additive printing and they're STARTING to be able to give touch feedback and such...
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » May 28th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Here's the topic for today - please share your thoughts in a comment!

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Note: A stamina augment for this discussion is defined as something that would greatly improve endurance to the point that normal living wouldn't require (but would still permit) sleep OR would allow greatly increased activity with normal sleep requirements.

I have a strong belief that a person shouldn't undergo surgery for any reason that isn't required to support baseline health and the state of being alive. Surgery has risks, and some of the normal results are undesirable (like the recovery period... especially if you discover that you're hypersensitive to some of the medications involved - true story). It's not that I think a stamina or any other augment is a bad idea in theory, but I believe it has to be a bit more compelling a reason than that to get cut open and deal with that. Furthermore, I'm expecting that any such system would be pretty invasive - it would probably involve some extensive hormonal regulation and compensation systems. If this is true, that would almost certainly have a risk of complications.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby UrbanMysticDee » May 28th, 2018, 9:27 pm

sunseeker25 wrote:Note: A stamina augment for this discussion is defined as something that would greatly improve endurance to the point that normal living wouldn't require (but would still permit) sleep OR would allow greatly increased activity with normal sleep requirements.

The point of sleep (REM sleep specifically) appears to be, based on what I would consider preponderance of evidence, to transfer memory from short-term to long-term. Finding a way to indefinitely postpone sleep, if possible, would probably cause dementia.

We already do have ways of postponing sleep for several days at least, including ephedrine and amphetamine, both of which can be fairly safe if used properly and the whole idea of the drug laws we have are retarded. One idiot uses a drug incorrectly and dies so all of us have to suffer. We should be able to put whatever we want into our bodies as long as we're not harming anyone else, but that's a separate topic. You should read the directions before you show up to the party.

sunseeker25 wrote:I have a strong belief that a person shouldn't undergo surgery for any reason that isn't required to support baseline health and the state of being alive.

I actually agree with this, and not just because I'm a contrarian and I believe most people are idiots, but because the costs of unnecessary surgery are deferred to society. We live in a society that glorifies surgery. People are so ugly inside that they need to make themselves look better on the outside to compensate for having horrible personalities. There's no substance, just image. Many people are selfish, duplicitous, childish narcissists. But that's another topic.

sunseeker25 wrote:Surgery has risks, and some of the normal results are undesirable (like the recovery period... especially if you discover that you're hypersensitive to some of the medications involved - true story). It's not that I think a stamina or any other augment is a bad idea in theory, but I believe it has to be a bit more compelling a reason than that to get cut open and deal with that. Furthermore, I'm expecting that any such system would be pretty invasive - it would probably involve some extensive hormonal regulation and compensation systems. If this is true, that would almost certainly have a risk of complications.

If stamina is being used to describe something that produces a stimulant effect (as per the above definition) I don't see how that would factor in surgery, other than the fact that having your body cut open is really painful and it helps to be sedated.

If stamina were to mean say some Wolverine-level healing factor then I suppose that it would make surgery, at least elective surgery, impossible because the body would just repair itself back to the way it was prior to surgery. The body wants to assume a per-determined shape, for reasons we don't understand. A few months after getting a nose job and your nose would grow back to its original shape. The only way to prevent this would be to find out whatever the 3D blueprint for the body is (and that might take hundreds of years) and then change it.

Of course if someone had a healing factor like that then surgery would be unnecessary because injuries would repair themselves. But to do that you would probably have to change the DNA in every cell in the body to be more like stem cells, like in plenaria. And we have no idea how to do that either. This is more like magic than finding a way to distribute food more equitably.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby Oly-RRR » May 28th, 2018, 9:40 pm

sunseeker25 wrote:I have a strong belief that a person shouldn't undergo surgery for any reason that isn't required to support baseline health and the state of being alive.

This. I mean it's a choice but I wouldn't go for it. Also being asleep is a pretty good break from dealing with some stuff going on on the daily basis, not to mention all the biological reasons for sleep.

sunseeker25 wrote: I can go to Wal-mart and get some pretty effective medicine for $4.

You must be quite fortunate health-wise to be able to cover your medical needs with $4! :) It's a good thing and I wish you to continue to stay in good health but when it comes to any chronic illness or disability the numbers get much higher, patent or not, so I'm not particularly optimistic there.

UrbanMysticDee wrote:the whole idea of the drug laws we have are retarded

Can we please keep the r-word out of this otherwise civilized and interesting discussion? I for one would really appreciate it.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » May 30th, 2018, 9:19 pm

The point of sleep (REM sleep specifically) appears to be, based on what I would consider preponderance of evidence, to transfer memory from short-term to long-term. Finding a way to indefinitely postpone sleep, if possible, would probably cause dementia.

Hrm. That suggests that a stamin augment would need some kind of supplementary component that uses a controller BCI to do the job instead. Might be possible once they figure out the nuts and bolts of how this works since computers are pretty good at transferring data.

If stamina is being used to describe something that produces a stimulant effect (as per the above definition) I don't see how that would factor in surgery, other than the fact that having your body cut open is really painful and it helps to be sedated.

I would postulate that a stamina augment is not drug based, but works by controlling the body's systems so that it just doesn't get fatigued. This requires a deep understanding of fatigue and how to both prevent it from happening and to compensate for it as it does happen. I'm not a doctor or a biomedical researcher, but some progress could be acquired by monitoring the endocrine system and possibly controlling input and output of the muscles, both in terms of stimuli and nutrient molecules/waste molecule removal. To use a trope, a lot of things will be possible with nanites? :D

If stamina were to mean say some Wolverine-level healing factor then I suppose that it would make surgery, at least elective surgery, impossible because the body would just repair itself back to the way it was prior to surgery. The body wants to assume a per-determined shape, for reasons we don't understand. A few months after getting a nose job and your nose would grow back to its original shape. The only way to prevent this would be to find out whatever the 3D blueprint for the body is (and that might take hundreds of years) and then change it.

That would be a different kind of augment, a "healing" augment if you will. Stamina has to do with endurance and fatigue only. A healing augment would be considerably more challenging imo... but... I'm probably going to discuss that at some point ;)

Of course if someone had a healing factor like that then surgery would be unnecessary because injuries would repair themselves. But to do that you would probably have to change the DNA in every cell in the body to be more like stem cells, like in plenaria. And we have no idea how to do that either. This is more like magic than finding a way to distribute food more equitably.

Not necessarily. It could be done via nanites reconstructing cells at the molecular level. No, we don't have anything like that now, but basic concept prototypes do exist and it seems to be moving forward. An example:

https://news.softpedia.com/news/Nanites ... 0757.shtml

... and that was three years ago.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » June 2nd, 2018, 7:05 pm

Here's the topic for today - please share your thoughts in a comment!

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I've been reading that we're moving more towards biometric locks that involve fingerprint, facial and other kinds of non-password-based security. I can understand why this is a good idea; most people use really bad passwords, for one thing. I'm figuring that over time ways to overcome these locks will also happen, so by 2118 it's probably going to be about using multiple forms of security at the same time to try to compensate, meaning, voice, face, fingerprint, challenge question, all of them at once. That might be harder to bypass (I hope).
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby Oly-RRR » June 2nd, 2018, 10:33 pm

I can imagine people getting locked out of their homes because a software update went screwy. Fun times. :P Generally I think the more complicated it gets the worse it'll work, and there will always be ways to bypass it anyway. I also think that in most cases good old common sense makes up for a lot of fancy security (don't lose you phone and you don't need to password-protect it in the first place, etc).

But I do think that it can be a really good feature when it comes to accessibility.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby UrbanMysticDee » June 2nd, 2018, 11:34 pm

Fingerprints aren't really all that accurate. A lot of it is guesswork. There are no standards so individual "experts" basically decide how many and which key points to compare.



Other means like scanning faces and eyeballs require the person to be alive because those features degrade, often within minutes, to the point where the machine can tell the difference between a living and a dead subject, so no one can go to a security checkpoint with a bag of eyes or a severed head and get in. Also there tend to be men with guns guarding the really secure places anyway.

The real problem with passwords as they are now is the way passwords are stored.

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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » June 5th, 2018, 12:39 am

Here's the topic for today - please share your thoughts in a comment!

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Just like the invention of the Bessemer process made steel widely available, we are now developing the means to make graphene commercially viable. Like steel, graphene is extremely strong and is useful for more than its strength; I expect that it will change how we operate society in ways similar to how the advent of easy access to steel did. It's also very likely that other forms of two-dimensional materials (like graphene is) will prove useful in the future once we properly both discover and learn how to commercially produce it.
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Re: Utopia Next - Discussion on Future Tech and Society

Postby sunseeker25 » June 9th, 2018, 4:23 pm

Here's the topic for today - please share your thoughts in a comment!

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I would probably want a cloned one that is like my original, but it might depend on the situation. If by then I had a really good reason for wanting a bionic one I might do that instead. Good reasons could include: I might still be at risk of losing it again (and bionic limbs are tougher) or, possibly, I might need the benefits that a bionic limb would have over a cloned one. I'm not particularly interested in super-strength, but I don't really know what the future will hold. The key for me though, is if I don't have a real NEED for a bionic limb, I'm not going to go that route.
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