Tell me if I should leave SJ.

A board designated for discussion of personal issues.
Forum rules
Due to the often sensitive nature of the discussions occurring in Life Issues, we ask that you be particularly considerate and respectful toward posters here. Violation of this request will be considered a violation of the rules.

Tell me if I should leave SJ.

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 2:04 am

Edit: The title previously said "[Compassion Requested]", but that's a bit redundant. I also gave the impression that I was asking for sympathy, which I am not. I just want people to try to be intelligent with their responses. Concise rather than just angry insults. Sure I guess you can insult me too but I'd like some useful information in there if it wouldn't be too much to ask. Tell me how you really feel, not just attack my character. That's really all I meant with the tag. u.u

ORIGINAL POST does not contain up-to-date info, and I won't keep editing it. Just read the thread if you wanna know where this stands.
==========================================================

I hate the religious conflicts here. I did not mean for people to jump me every time something religious comes up. I hate that things get uglier and uglier every time I post, even when I TRY to be nice. I try really, really hard to be nice but now it just builds up more and more, and people hate me more and more, and they get angry when I get frustrated because of continued, escalated passive abuse, because I initially said things they didn't like. It just grows more and more until it explodes into angry fits, and I get accused of being the only one throwing a tantrum.

NO. This isn't about TANTRUMS. It's about people getting HURT, on BOTH sides. And it's getting worse and worse. We are so far apart from each other we can't even see each other anymore. You're yelling at some weird caricature version of me! I am blinded by my own hurt and it's making me distort YOU, too.

I misread the climate of the forum, made comments that were FAR too liberal for this place, and it got very, VERY out of hand.

I hate how hated I am here.
I hate how ugly the few who are mad at me think I am.

I feel like I should just delete my comic and leave. Just disappear, because this place is so highly populated by religious people. I know people can disagree peacefully and coexist, but now I just get assaulted in the forums. It's like I'm not allowed to talk about certain topics now without setting people off. People who I have hurt deeply and there is no reconciliation for it. And then there are lurkers have a lot of really wildly distorted opinions about who I am. I am being misjudged by everyone who hates me, because things have gone wild. I am not this wild extremist, but a lot of talks have gotten very out of hand so it makes me look that way. I can't talk myself out of it-- people have already determined their impressions of who I am and I can't change that.

I upset a few people and it just gets bigger and bigger. Now people downright disdain me. And accuse me of disdaining them. It is NOT mutual, and I am hurt. I may argue passionately about certain issues, but I hate no one. I hate the things they do to me. And honestly, a lot of that is my fault, but it was not intentional. I can't fix it. The hatred has grown into a wild monster and I can't kill it.

I love and know many religious people in my life. We debate, but we can separate that from personally hating each other. We can talk about personal matters, and they can respectfully say when I am mistaken. Now, that isn't even possible here. It's just "HOW DARE YOU MAKE ASSUMPTIONS DES" and it gets out of control. Then I get so angry, so upset, so CONFUSED that I just start spewing ugliness. It makes me a horrible person-- no WONDER you hate me.

I cannot handle this sort of aggression towards my BEING. You can attack my ideology, my ideas, my beliefs, but as soon as you start attacking ME as a person, I feel like I'm not worth existing. The world is full of people who oppose me, and people like me. If I was just a Christian, I would be embraced and loved. Expressing my views destroys everything, every time. Even when I mean well. I'm like an alien on a martian landscape. I just jumped into a village, tried to shake hands, and now I've got dozens of spears up to my neck, and I'm not even sure how it happened, and so quickly, too.

I try to fit in where I go, I give honest advice from my heart, but it's too "mean" for people. NOW I'M A MONSTER. Now a lot of people hate me. I can't stand being hated. But they want to hate me. They like hating me because I hurt a place inside of them. I can't even say I'm sorry. It doesn't matter if I do, even though their faith tells them to forgive. I've already lost their respect, forever.

I love this community. But I feel scared. I feel like there are a lot of people here who are conservative, who are religious, and who really hate people like me. And THEY think I hate THEM. I really don't. I can disagree with you without hating you. But it doesn't matter. You hate that I disagree. You hate that I dare express it. And you hate that I am emotionally volatile... That if you push me, I boil. I hate it, too. I wish I didn't. I wish I didn't push people so far.

Well now I've been pushed. Into a corner. I think I backed myself there, but people kept stepping closer, too. I backed myself into a corner, writhing and screaming, they stepped in closer, and it just got worse. I lashed out like a caged animal, and now it's destroyed so many things I've hoped for.

I made a huge mistake by making bold statements about religion. It was totally wrong. I know religious people are allowed to freely express their faith, but if an atheist expresses their contrary beliefs publicly, it's just upsetting. This isn't FAIR, but it's how it is, and I should stop trying to fight it. At least on forums like this. It is something I care about deeply-- allowing atheists to express themselves-- but SJ isn't the place to do it. I can say that I should probably silence myself on the matter.

However, religious discussions DO happen here so frequently, that if I am to stay, I'm going to need people to give me the benefit of the doubt when I'm trying to diplomatically discuss something. Although I can say it's safe to assume that I will generally be avoiding any sort of religious discussions at all if I do stay here. Political as well, probably. I will have to bite my tongue if I see something religious that bothers me. I'm sure I'm not the only one (I've actually had a few atheists PM me with their sympathies as they have watched this horrible battle unfold).

I need to clarify a few matters. This is not to defend myself, but an attempt to reconcile some concerns:
1) I do NOT hate religion at large. I do NOT hate peaceful religion. I do NOT try to turn people away from spirituality or God.
2) I DO have some personal issues with Catholicism. It is a popular religion here on SJ, and I was surprised to learn that.
3) I do NOT hate Catholics. I do NOT hate PEOPLE. But their ideology can rub me very much the wrong way.
4) I do NOT hate a single person on this forum, so if you think I do, I don't. I really don't hate you. It takes a lot more than religion/politics for me to hate somebody.
5) I am NOT insecure about my atheism, nor do I have an inferiority complex. I do, however, feel shockingly outnumbered, which has made me jumpy.
6) I do NOT claim to be the "guru" on transsexual issues. I have just reached out to a few people because I have a lot of experience/knowledge on the subject. I do not assume I know better than everyone-- I just have a lot of resources and contacts and I can help you with just about anything trans-related because I used to work at a LGBT center and specialized in helping trans people.
7) I am not really an aggressive, angry, mean, horrible person. I do, however, stay pretty defensive once I've felt attacked, so it's just gotten uglier and uglier as time has gone on. I am actually generally a nice person, but I have this side of me that can get really melodramatic if I feel cornered. That's what's happening here.
8) I love this community and would prefer not to leave. I love being among artists. I want to share this lovely space with you. I want to stop hurting people. But they also need to stop reading everything I write with such malice. I really am not always tonguelashing everyone. I am sorry I gave that impression.
9) I am stubborn, but I know when I have crossed the line. I feel like I have crossed it, especially after exploding at a user who I will keep anonymous out of respect.
10) I AM actually sorry to all the people I have upset here. I'm not just saying that for points. I mean it.

Please do not reply if you are just going to write a litany of insults. That is not why I made this thread. I need constructive answers. That does not mean I discourage criticism. But just do me a favor if you have any compassion at all, and keep the ugly attacks out.
Last edited by desideraht on February 26th, 2012, 3:34 am, edited 4 times in total.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby repsychus » February 26th, 2012, 2:19 am

Desideraht, you are taking this too far. Your words smack of paranoia. Yes, you have very liberal views, but no one here is persecuting you. If anything, you are persecuting yourself. Not some minutes ago, you quite boldly said "I don't care what anyone thinks" in the vent thread. Why this now? My advice is that you should heed your own words.

I meant what I said, desideraht. I do not feel any enmity or affection towards you. My religion and my own personal situation played a part in our previous argument. Even so, your words were hurtful. What occurred on your part was a clear miscommunication of my intent and your understanding of my intent. Every post after where I attempted to discern the heart of your beliefs in regard to my situation only befuddled the matter. Yet, in reading back, I can only still see the viciousness with which you responded to my carefully worded rebukes. I never once dissolved into swears. I went off only what I was reading, free of emotion beyond the displeasure of feeling you were not understanding or listening to me at all. Both of us have only text to convey ourselves. Absent of tone and body language, we can only perceive one another's posts in our minds. Therein lies your problem.

My advice, should you even wish to read it, is that you consider your previous words and stop caring so much about what others think. It is that fragility and sensitivity of emotion that leads to arguments and the building ire that brings you to these conclusions. As well, consider reading your posts aloud to yourself in several tones before you post them. It may help to determine how others think of your words.
User avatar
repsychus
 
Posts: 278
Joined: February 23rd, 2008, 4:17 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 2:24 am

I cannot intelligently discuss this with you if your reply seeks to invalidate my feelings as "paranoia". That is not compassion.

I might not care what people think, but I do care what they FEEL. I don't like hurting people. It is never my intent. I wish I could argue, even tell people they are wrong, but cause no pain to them. Human beings just can't do that, though. They can be hurt very deeply and that is one of my vices in life. I hate slaying people with words, yet I am terribly good at it.

Let's be frank; I am a terrible diplomat on the internet. I'm really good at it in person, but for some reason, I just suck at it online. It ends ugly every time. I've been outcast and chased out of so many communities. I thought it wouldn't happen here, but I fucked up where I least expected it to affect me and others.

My cussing, my passionate expression, is not automatic viciousness or hatred, but online, people just can't see that I'm one of those wised-mouthed guys. It's just how I've always talked, like a city slicker from Chicago. But it feels like I'm spewing obscenities in a church-- literally. People are so tender here, and blasphemy rips people wide open. I had no idea that was how this place was like at all. And I don't hate that-- I just wish I knew it before I opened my fat mouth.

I'm going to try really hard to make things right before I leave if I do. Or maybe I can salvage things. I can't make everyone I've argued with like me, but maybe we can talk things out and understand each other. If you don't want to, that's fine. I understand that you and I just argued, but you're not the only one, either. It's like, 3 or 4 people? It's enough to really bother me. It's enough for me to feel like I'm disrupting a nice place.

Let me also admit here and now that I have done some really shitty things on this site because when people accuse me of things I get unreasonably angry. I just caught myself getting so angry that I was practically seeing red and it made me realize how out of control this is. I am not asking SJ to be my therapist but I do want to be on the same page with people whom I have wronged.

It's called making things right, and it may seem weird, but I have no moral reason to do so. I just have a heart. It's a very sensitive, bleeding heart. It's why my hatred can spill and flood just like love can. And for that I am truly sorry.
Last edited by desideraht on February 26th, 2012, 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby repsychus » February 26th, 2012, 2:41 am

desideraht wrote:I cannot intelligently discuss this with you if your reply seeks to invalidate my feelings as "paranoia". That is not compassion.

I might not care what people think, but I do care what they FEEL. I don't like hurting people. It is never my intent. I wish I could argue, even tell people they are wrong, but cause no pain to them. Human beings just can't do that, though. They can be hurt very deeply and that is one of my vices in life. I hate slaying people with words, yet I am terribly good at it.


You have not slayed me. I still feel nothing for you, either negative or positive. I am merely answering this post because I fear for your emotional state. I do not think you should be attempting such extremes as quitting a forum you like because you cannot discuss topics without anger. And, yes, desideraht, you are feeling anger. Anyone that reads this will find that abundantly clear.

As for your feelings, I accept them. Yet I do not think you are understanding the phrase "smacks of paranoia." You seem to see enemies everywhere. There are not. Clearly, if you have plenty of friends pming you about the injustice of your discussions, then you have plenty of people to speak to in this community. Your loneliness is something you perceive for yourself or else evince in order to gain sympathy. I do feel sympathetic towards you. I do not wish to see you putting yourself out here as though you are expecting to be wounded. Indeed, I think you should buck up, deal with the differing climate on this forum, and triumph through adversity.

Now, I'm sure you can come to realize that, despite religions, plenty of people agree with you. It's when you push your opinions so hard as if they are irrefutable fact that you appear to have a superiority complex. Try prefacing your strong words with "I think," which not only makes you author to such beliefs, but also allows for some gentility in your more passionate ideas. I will endeavor to do the same, as well as to define my words.

I realize in reading AGAIN the previous posts that you put in the vent thread, before editing, that you may have assumed my term "lie" meant that my boyfriend telling my mother he is a man was a lie. You told me "pass him off as a boy." To my mother. Now, you may not realize, but to present false pretense in my religion is considered as good as lying. To skirt around the truth, especially in such a delicate situation as introducing the one I love to my parents, is considered to a Catholic to be a lie. I know my boyfriend is a man. I have always referred to him by the proper pronoun. I love him as a man, though I must, for the sake of the intimate relationship we mean to have, also accept him as transgendered. This is the last time I will clarify these points. I know you will still find offense, but I am alright with that.

In closing, I hope you do not leave. If you like SJ, stay. You are the only one that can allow another person's views and words to harm you. You are being paranoid about your enemies. From one rational being to another, I say that you are not alone. Though our opinions differ, I know our core desires are the same.

Edit: Furthermore, I suggest you do not keep editing your posts after the fact. I will respond only to what you have posted first, for I believe those are your most unfiltered words. I will always quote directly from the first post I see. If you wish to edit your words or deafen the heat of your passion, you should do so before you post.
User avatar
repsychus
 
Posts: 278
Joined: February 23rd, 2008, 4:17 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 2:54 am

Please stop second-guessing me. I would not deny feeling anger. That's why I made this thread-- because I realized how unjustly angry I've been acting.

I can intelligently discern how many "enemies" I have. It's less than half a dozen on this site. But I fear others may step out from the shadows. Quiet lurkers. How many people have I really hurt? And can I even hope to achieve some sort of civil resolution? I am not asking to be liked. I am asking for peace. Sure, for every person who has been mad at me, I've gotten a PM in support. It feels about 50-50. But I am not interpreting people as numbers.

Let's be clear; this thread is NOT about me seeking sympathy. I am not a fan of sympathy, as it is patronizing. I want understanding. Intelligent dialogue where it has been lacking. Discussing an argument and conflict in a context where the personal matters are not relevant, and coming to realizations about each other. That is what I seek. Yes, the OP was written emotionally, but I am covering some ground here and starting to think more clearly about what it is I am really trying to achieve here.

I appreciate the suggestions. It is true that I tend to state things "as fact". One of the issues is that... well, do you believe your religion to be true? Do you say, "I think God is real?" or do you say, "I know God is real?" In contrast, I would never say that I know God isn't real-- I don't. But I will have strong convictions about other beliefs. For instance, I have said on this site that "I do not believe in souls," or "I believe there is no soul." People still think I am stating a "fact"... but I'm not. "I believe" is the same as "I think," is it not?

To address the issue with transsexualism, gender and sex are not one in the same. I will speak for myself to avoid making assumptions about your partner: I AM a man. I may be female-born, but I AM a man. I am NOT male NOR female. There is no medically accurate term to describe my anatomy. I am not intersex, either. My sex classification can really only be adequately described as "middlesex, leaning towards female". I will not disclose that to just anyone, or everyone. I also do not disclose my transsexuality to every last person. Sometimes it's best to get to know them first. Transsexuality does not take precedence over telling them other information about yourself. I don't see why everyone thinks it's the first thing you ought to tell someone. It's not like I meant you should never tell her. But since you already have, that particular piece of advice is not relevant. I just generally recommend a person gets to know someone a little before disclosing first. I am NOT one of those people. I tell just about everyone. I am a "public" representative, so to speak. I make myself visible for political reasons.

We will probably never agree on the transgender matter. But I need it to be clear that I do not condone lying. Your religious definition of lying is different than mine. I have my very own religious definition of lying, based on my own constructed philosophies based on several tiers of faith. I don the Egyptian symbol of truth and cross my heart with it. It matters so much to me that I intend to have it permanently inscribed on my body for my own personal spiritual reasons. I lack a God, but I do not lack a living spirit.

I appreciate your opinion on this matter (me staying or leaving), and it means a lot to me. Thank you.

I've been editing posts because I'm not supposed to "double-post" new thoughts. My edits are not dishonest or illegitimate. I will repost in different posts if that is the only way to communicate, but mods have asked me to condense posts. It really sucks that you choose to disregard a lot of information just because you don't like that it was added on by combining posts (rather than double-posting). That really does not change the meaning of what I've said at all.

Edit: I am also compulsively fixing typos. I even miss them when I proof-read.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [Compassion Requested]

Postby Zigren » February 26th, 2012, 3:05 am

As much compassion as I can muster for you is to try and be as CLEAR AS POSSIBLE while explaining to you WHY you've got this problem on your hands. I honestly can't say that I hate you, I don't know you and you haven't done anything to me. But, I do dislike you for the repugnant things that you've said. To reverse that would take nothing more than for you to just stop over-reacting and to stop attacking people who've done nothing to warrant it.

"Criticism" behind spoiler, I got kind of snappy in there but I think you need to hear it:

Spoiler! :
There aren't tons of religious conflicts here. You're walking in, finding out somebody believes in God and then flipping out. ( Hi, that's called being a bigot, BTW) The only reason there might SEEM to be a bunch of religious fights would be because it is people's religion that you are honing in on and attacking people for.

If you're ACTUALLY UPSET AND REGRETFUL about hurting people then STOP DOING IT. It's a pretty simple: IF THIS BEHAVIOR(being a jerk) CAUSES THIS UNDESIRABLE OUTCOME(hurting people) THEN I SHOULD STOP THIS BEHAVIOR(being a jerk) TO PREVENT THE UNDESIRABLE OUTCOME(hurting people). Stop TRYING to be nice and actually BE a nice, considerate, and helpful member of the community.

This is not a conservative corner of the internet. Just about everybody here reads comics full of gay porn (and a lot are writing them). You're just refusing to see that YOUR PERSONALITY is the problem and are blaming the hostility you are feeling on whatever makes you feel better.
"It can't be me that's making everybody hate me, it must be their... their-- wait what's a group of people I hate??? OH CONSERVATIVES, yeah you're all a bunch of stinking conservatives that hate the very special and liberal me."

Open your eyes and stop making assumptions about other people because it suits your version of the world. I don't know how many people in the community are religious or how religious they are and there's no way for you to know, either.

But I feel scared. I feel like there are a lot of people here who are conservative, who are religious, and who really hate people like me.

The reason people think you hate them is because you do. What does being conservative or religious have to do with hating people like you? I do not like you because you are repugnant; every time you open your mouth it's to say something awful and hateful not because you are "liberal" or "trans" or "atheist" these factors have NOTHING TO DO WITH DISLIKING YOU FOR THE AWFUL THINGS YOU'VE SAID. I am a liberal atheist. This fact does NOT determine relationships with people who are conservative and/or religious and it shouldn't determine your relationships with them either. If you feel you need to fight about these things and try to show people the ~error of their ways~ it's not going to work because they believe that they are as right as you are. These are matters of opinion, not math questions, there isn't a single correct answer. Pointing at horrible things somebody did for their religion or conservative views is irrelevant to this. These people had the capacity for these horrid deeds and almost always a deeper, secular reason for these acts.

I'm not trying to leave you a string of senseless insults, I am trying to give you a reality check. You are NOT the victim here. You are the one who has stormed in and attacked people for their beliefs. There is no excuse for finding out somebody believes in God and deciding by that fact alone that they are a despicable person.

You see that you're spewing horrible, ugly things so I don't understand why you can't just turn it off. Seriously. Click Preview and re-read what you're trying to post or something to help you see that you're being foolish before it's already been read by somebody else. If you're giving "honest advice from [your] heart" and people think it's too mean have you thought that it isn't the people but the you that has the problem? That you've got a mean heart? Or need to learn to communicate with people without being offensive?


Tl;DR: Unless you can learn to turn off the self-righteous asshole, yes, I do recommend you leave the forums because you're making no friends. (but I don't really see why you would want to take your comic with you? I've been on SJ for years and very rarely come onto the forums, I don't think what's happened here is a reason to leave the entire site.)


PS: You're not diplomatically discussing anything if you're hurting feelings!
Image
User avatar
Zigren
 
Posts: 17
Joined: June 26th, 2007, 12:16 am

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [Compassion Requested]

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 3:11 am

Zigren wrote:[Stuff]
So while there is a lot I disagree with what you said there, I will not argue every last point. Instead, I'm going to put my pride down, let people accuse me of things (because what they feel is valid), and I'll just take the advice that their opinions come with.

I would like to say that I am not "refusing" to see anything. I'm just not having the easiest time introspecting, and while it's difficult to hear people saying these things about me, I do see a lot of truth in it. So yes, I really haven't realized how nasty personality has really been. I've felt like it was justified until it got SO UGLY that I started to notice it.

This is NOT an excuse-- but I have been terribly emotionally unstable in general lately. It has made this online experience a lot more difficult as well. I am starting to value the comfort of this site enough to realize how much of a douche I'm being. I want friends here, not enemies. Also, I would take my comic with me because I want to have it on a site where I can have friends and be comfortable. So I either fix things here and stay, or leave completely. I realize that seems extreme, but it's what I want for my comic.

So yeah, there is so much in your post I WANT to argue with, to clarify, to "repair" and "explain", but I just think that would be a mistake. Instead I will just focus on what matters; I agree with your advice and I will heed it.

(Btw I didn't change your post to "stuff" to undermine it, I was just shortening it to quote it. >.>)
Last edited by desideraht on February 26th, 2012, 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby repsychus » February 26th, 2012, 3:12 am

desideraht wrote:Please stop second-guessing me. I would not deny feeling anger. That's why I made this thread-- because I realized how unjustly angry I've been acting.

I can intelligently discern how many "enemies" I have. It's less than half a dozen on this site. But I fear others may step out from the shadows. Quiet lurkers. How many people have I really hurt? And can I even hope to achieve some sort of civil resolution? I am not asking to be liked. I am asking for peace. Sure, for every person who has been mad at me, I've gotten a PM in support. It feels about 50-50. But I am not interpreting people as numbers.

Let's be clear; this thread is NOT about me seeking sympathy. I am not a fan of sympathy, as it is patronizing. I want understanding. Intelligent dialogue where it has been lacking. Discussing an argument and conflict in a context where the personal matters are not relevant, and coming to realizations about each other. That is what I seek. Yes, the OP was written emotionally, but I am covering some ground here and starting to think more clearly about what it is I am really trying to achieve here.

I appreciate the suggestions. It is true that I tend to state things "as fact". One of the issues is that... well, do you believe your religion to be true? Do you say, "I think God is real?" or do you say, "I know God is real?" In contrast, I would never say that I know God isn't real-- I don't. But I will have strong convictions about other beliefs. For instance, I have said on this site that "I do not believe in souls," or "I believe there is no soul." People still think I am stating a "fact"... but I'm not. "I believe" is the same as "I think," is it not?

To address the issue with transsexualism, gender and sex are not one in the same. I will speak for myself to avoid making assumptions about your partner: I AM a man. I may be female-born, but I AM a man. I am NOT male NOR female. There is no medically accurate term to describe my anatomy. I am not intersex, either. My sex classification can really only be adequately described as "middlesex, leaning towards female". I will not disclose that to just anyone, or everyone. I also do not disclose my transsexuality to every last person. Sometimes it's best to get to know them first. Transsexuality does not take precedence over telling them other information about yourself. I don't see why everyone thinks it's the first thing you ought to tell someone. It's not like I meant you should never tell her. But since you already have, that particular piece of advice is not relevant. I just generally recommend a person gets to know someone a little before disclosing first. I am NOT one of those people. I tell just about everyone. I am a "public" representative, so to speak. I make myself visible for political reasons.

We will probably never agree on the transgender matter. But I need it to be clear that I do not condone lying. Your religious definition of lying is different than mine. I have my very own religious definition of lying, based on my own constructed philosophies based on several tiers of faith. I don the Egyptian symbol of truth and cross my heart with it. It matters so much to me that I intend to have it permanently inscribed on my body for my own personal spiritual reasons. I lack a God, but I do not lack a living spirit.

I appreciate your opinion on this matter (me staying or leaving), and it means a lot to me. Thank you.

I've been editing posts because I'm not supposed to "double-post" new thoughts. My edits are not dishonest or illegitimate. I will repost in different posts if that is the only way to communicate, but mods have asked me to condense posts. It really sucks that you choose to disregard a lot of information just because you don't like that it was added on by combining posts (rather than double-posting). That really does not change the meaning of what I've said at all.


To the issue of posting, the fact that you would re-edit a post that has already been responded to would negate the point of having a discussion. You then force a person to either edit their post or create another post, which also creates an issue of breaking the chain of communication. There is ample room on SJ's servers for another reply by you, particularly one that pertains to the new information brought in discussion by the second party. Regardless, that is only a nitpicky matter.

As for the "I think" matter, it is up to you if you wish to change your manner of presenting your opinions. I will endeavor to do the same around you, as I now know how sensitive you are to my wording. This is a matter of politeness, not a point of principle or philosophy.

And, yes, deisideraht, you are seeking sympathy - otherwise you would not request compassion.

Furthermore, your self-confessed Atheism confuses me. One moment you believe nothing, the next you believe something. Either you yourself are confused to that point or else your beliefs will fluctuate with your mood. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it makes it hard to get to know you as a person. I believe these inconsistencies of opinion or else different facets of your thoughts only revealed in several, differing threads can appear hypocritical as a whole.

And, again, I believe you perceive far more enemies than you actually have. I'm certain many people hardly think of you at all, let alone to feel some sort of anger towards you. This is a comic website. It's not meant to be a place were we categorize one another. In fact, this is hardly a topic I normally talk in! Most of us are here for the comics, nothing more. You shouldn't think that once someone posts a reply to your opinions that is different or angered that they are at once your enemy. It takes much more than the internet to rouse a person to hate. At least, I'd like to think so of myself.
User avatar
repsychus
 
Posts: 278
Joined: February 23rd, 2008, 4:17 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [Compassion Requested]

Postby trenton_dawn » February 26th, 2012, 3:17 am

On the issue of double-posting, we generally do prefer users edit their posts instead of double posting because it's neater. It's not a terribly strict requirement though, I usually won't call someone on it unless it's severe and/or pointless.

I do want to say something on this topic but I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet so I'll wait until I'm done with that.
Gaia, a fantasy comic
Ghost, an online novel — Sketchbook thread — deviantArt
Need assistance with anything? Feel free to PM me.
Seven Rain wrote:Trenton speaks words of wisdom.
User avatar
trenton_dawn
 
Posts: 2710
Joined: December 14th, 2006, 7:59 pm
Location: Auberdine, Darkshore (Alliance Territory)

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 3:22 am

repsychus wrote:To the issue of posting, the fact that you would re-edit a post that has already been responded to would negate the point of having a discussion. You then force a person to either edit their post or create another post, which also creates an issue of breaking the chain of communication. There is ample room on SJ's servers for another reply by you, particularly one that pertains to the new information brought in discussion by the second party. Regardless, that is only a nitpicky matter.

As for the "I think" matter, it is up to you if you wish to change your manner of presenting your opinions. I will endeavor to do the same around you, as I now know how sensitive you are to my wording. This is a matter of politeness, not a point of principle or philosophy.

And, yes, deisideraht, you are seeking sympathy - otherwise you would not request compassion.

Furthermore, your self-confessed Atheism confuses me. One moment you believe nothing, the next you believe something. Either you yourself are confused to that point or else your beliefs will fluctuate with your mood. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it makes it hard to get to know you as a person. I believe these inconsistencies of opinion or else different facets of your thoughts only revealed in several, differing threads can appear hypocritical as a whole.

And, again, I believe you perceive far more enemies than you actually have. I'm certain many people hardly think of you at all, let alone to feel some sort of anger towards you. This is a comic website. It's not meant to be a place were we categorize one another. In fact, this is hardly a topic I normally talk in! Most of us are here for the comics, nothing more. You shouldn't think that once someone posts a reply to your opinions that is different or angered that they are at once your enemy. It takes much more than the internet to rouse a person to hate. At least, I'd like to think so of myself.

I apologize, I didn't realize you were in the thread at the time (and responding). Or rather I didn't think of it that way. I am not trying to get you to go back to edit things. I am being a little careless with the editing. I can reply after responses if I see them because that wouldn't be a double-post. Basically I'm being a little too hasty.

Honestly... I will try a number of things. "I think" is one of them. I will also keep certain thoughts to myself, because they do come off as personal attacks to others.

Requesting compassion is not seeking sympathy. Please do not speak for me or tell me what I want. I am seeking intelligent dialogue. Attacks really just get in the way of that. I am not asking for lies or sugar-coating. I am asking for a lack of aggressive embellishments. Some self-restraint. I am asking for mutual respect because I am trying very hard to do that myself. A team effort towards diplomacy.

Atheism is a lack of a belief in a deity. Some buddhists are atheist. I am not a member of the Egyptian faith-- they are polytheistic-- however, I have embraced some of their Pagan symbology. Paganism also does not necessarily require theism either. My beliefs do not fluctuate, I just have never fully expressed them on this site. So allow me to summarize:

1) I am an atheist.
2) I am against organized religion. I do not tell others not to do it but I have political beliefs about how organized religion, which is a separate matter than the theology of it.
3) I do not believe in any afterlife.
4) I only belive in souls among the living-- my belief is that they are annihilated upon death.
5) I accept certain spiritual philosophies but under the condition of my atheism. They serve a pleasant artistic purpose.
6) I am agnostic-- I do not believe "there is no God" as much as I lack the belief in a God (atheism). That means that if I were to ever have a "spiritual experience," I could convert. I have had many Occult experiences, but none of them have convinced me that there is a God or souls in the afterlife. Only among the living.
7) I may hold and respect certain spiritual symbols but they play no "literal" purpose in my life.

My beliefs are simply complex. That is not confusion-- complexity does not confusion make. My complexity, however, can confuse others. Sometimes, the facets of my beliefs are not relevant to a discussion.

trenton_dawn wrote:On the issue of double-posting, we generally do prefer users edit their posts instead of double posting because it's neater. It's not a terribly strict requirement though, I usually won't call someone on it unless it's severe and/or pointless.

I do want to say something on this topic but I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet so I'll wait until I'm done with that.
Thank you for clarifying. I may double-post, but sparingly and with discretion.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby repsychus » February 26th, 2012, 3:34 am

desideraht wrote:
repsychus wrote:To the issue of posting, the fact that you would re-edit a post that has already been responded to would negate the point of having a discussion. You then force a person to either edit their post or create another post, which also creates an issue of breaking the chain of communication. There is ample room on SJ's servers for another reply by you, particularly one that pertains to the new information brought in discussion by the second party. Regardless, that is only a nitpicky matter.

As for the "I think" matter, it is up to you if you wish to change your manner of presenting your opinions. I will endeavor to do the same around you, as I now know how sensitive you are to my wording. This is a matter of politeness, not a point of principle or philosophy.

And, yes, deisideraht, you are seeking sympathy - otherwise you would not request compassion.

Furthermore, your self-confessed Atheism confuses me. One moment you believe nothing, the next you believe something. Either you yourself are confused to that point or else your beliefs will fluctuate with your mood. There is nothing wrong with that, of course, but it makes it hard to get to know you as a person. I believe these inconsistencies of opinion or else different facets of your thoughts only revealed in several, differing threads can appear hypocritical as a whole.

And, again, I believe you perceive far more enemies than you actually have. I'm certain many people hardly think of you at all, let alone to feel some sort of anger towards you. This is a comic website. It's not meant to be a place were we categorize one another. In fact, this is hardly a topic I normally talk in! Most of us are here for the comics, nothing more. You shouldn't think that once someone posts a reply to your opinions that is different or angered that they are at once your enemy. It takes much more than the internet to rouse a person to hate. At least, I'd like to think so of myself.

I apologize, I didn't realize you were in the thread at the time (and responding). Or rather I didn't think of it that way. I am not trying to get you to go back to edit things. I am being a little careless with the editing. I can reply after responses if I see them because that wouldn't be a double-post. Basically I'm being a little too hasty.

Honestly... I will try a number of things. "I think" is one of them. I will also keep certain thoughts to myself, because they do come off as personal attacks to others.

Requesting compassion is not seeking sympathy. Please do not speak for me or tell me what I want. I am seeking intelligent dialogue. Attacks really just get in the way of that. I am not asking for lies or sugar-coating. I am asking for a lack of aggressive embellishments. Some self-restraint. I am asking for mutual respect because I am trying very hard to do that myself. A team effort towards diplomacy.

Atheism is a lack of a belief in a deity. Some buddhists are atheist. I am not a member of the Egyptian faith-- they are polytheistic-- however, I have embraced some of their Pagan symbology. Paganism also does not necessarily require theism either. My beliefs do not fluctuate, I just have never fully expressed them on this site. So allow me to summarize:

1) I am an atheist.
2) I am against organized religion. I do not tell others not to do it but I have political beliefs about how organized religion, which is a separate matter than the theology of it.
3) I do not believe in any afterlife.
4) I only belive in souls among the living-- my belief is that they are annihilated upon death.
5) I accept certain spiritual philosophies but under the condition of my atheism. They serve a pleasant artistic purpose.
6) I am agnostic-- I do not believe "there is no God" as much as I lack the belief in a God (atheism). That means that if I were to ever have a "spiritual experience," I could convert. I have had many Occult experiences, but none of them have convinced me that there is a God or souls in the afterlife. Only among the living.
7) I may hold and respect certain spiritual symbols but they play no "literal" purpose in my life.

My beliefs are simply complex. That is not confusion-- complexity does not confusion make. My complexity, however, can confuse others. Sometimes, the facets of my beliefs are not relevant to a discussion.

trenton_dawn wrote:On the issue of double-posting, we generally do prefer users edit their posts instead of double posting because it's neater. It's not a terribly strict requirement though, I usually won't call someone on it unless it's severe and/or pointless.

I do want to say something on this topic but I haven't finished reading the whole thread yet so I'll wait until I'm done with that.
Thank you for clarifying. I may double-post, but sparingly and with discretion.


As I said I would, I shall offer definitions -

Compassion: A virtue. one in which the emotional capacities of empathy and sympathy (for the suffering of others) are regarded as a part of love itself, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism — foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood.

Sympathy: A social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. Also known as empathic concern, it is the feeling of compassion or concern for another.

You are asking for sympathy.

As to the other points, it's good to finally know where you stand in terms of religion. I now know how I shall next broach the subject with you, should you attempt to speak about religion again. I find beliefs to be fascinating, especially when they aren't my own. It is a pity we never got to realize that point prior to all of this. We may have been good friends. Yet, now, I find that I am tired of this. I have made my point. I feel I am correct in my points, as you do in yours.

I wish you neither ill nor harm, only to forget I ever spoke with you. Good night.
User avatar
repsychus
 
Posts: 278
Joined: February 23rd, 2008, 4:17 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ. [compassion requested]

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 3:38 am

repsychus wrote:As I said I would, I shall offer definitions -

Compassion: A virtue. one in which the emotional capacities of empathy and sympathy (for the suffering of others) are regarded as a part of love itself, and a cornerstone of greater social interconnection and humanism — foundational to the highest principles in philosophy, society, and personhood.

Sympathy: A social affinity in which one person stands with another person, closely understanding his or her feelings. Also known as empathic concern, it is the feeling of compassion or concern for another.

You are asking for sympathy.

As to the other points, it's good to finally know where you stand in terms of religion. I now know how I shall next broach the subject with you, should you attempt to speak about religion again. I find beliefs to be fascinating, especially when they aren't my own. It is a pity we never got to realize that point prior to all of this. We may have been good friends. Yet, now, I find that I am tired of this. I have made my point. I feel I am correct in my points, as you do in yours.

I wish you neither ill nor harm, only to forget I ever spoke with you. Good night.
Ok, you are going by dictionary definitions. It would probably frustrate you but this is my thought on the matter: I chose the wrong word to convey what I wanted. I do not want sympathy. I want drama-free communication.

So no, that is not what I am asking for. Have I been more clear? Stop telling people what they're doing. You really should value their clarity. English is imperfect. Respect when someone is struggling to find the word for their ideas. Ask questions instead of deciding for them what they mean to say. Yes, this is advice I should have taken earlier-- I am well aware.

I tried to broach this with you before-- that I feel you are talking down to me-- but you have difficulty of understanding the nuance. You are passively portraying authority. We cannot be friends as long as you speak to me like that. But we don't have to be enemies either. It sounds like you favor some sort of "rivalry" between us. Do know that I will not be an active participant.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ.

Postby UrbanMysticDee » February 26th, 2012, 3:43 am

I've been following this thread since it began only to learn later that a lot of stuff was changed! Not thinking my opinion will be changed dramatically by rereading all the new crap I'll just say what I've come to say and then go back to being a spectator (because I do find this rather to very amusing). For full disclosure, I have no stake in the matter, I don't care if you stay or go, and I honestly haven't paid any attention to anything you've said between that thing that got moved from the vent thread to this, and when this is done I'll go back to not paying any attention to you. From the perspective of a neutral observer (or damn near close), I make the following recomendation:

If you are going to all this trouble debating whether you should stay or go you must want to stay a hell of a lot, otherwise you would have just gone already without saying anything, and if you want to stay that much just stay.
Image Image
Image
Image Image
User avatar
UrbanMysticDee
 
Posts: 3914
Joined: March 13th, 2010, 12:33 am

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ.

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 3:44 am

UrbanMysticDee wrote:I've been following this thread since it began only to learn later that a lot of stuff was changed! Not thinking my opinion will be changed dramatically by rereading all the new crap I'll just say what I've come to say and then go back to being a spectator (because I do find this rather to very amusing). For full disclosure, I have no stake in the matter, I don't care if you stay or go, and I honestly haven't paid any attention to anything you've said between that thing that got moved from the vent thread to this, and when this is done I'll go back to not paying any attention to you. From the perspective of a neutral observer (or damn near close), I make the following recomendation:

If you are going to all this trouble debating whether you should stay or go you must want to stay a hell of a lot, otherwise you would have just gone already without saying anything, and if you want to stay that much just stay.
You tried very hard to sound neutral but the mocking apathy is actually pretty passive-aggressive. That's all I have to say about this.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Re: Tell me if I should leave SJ.

Postby desideraht » February 26th, 2012, 3:47 am

Let's clear something else up: Of course I WANT to stay. This thread was made in respects to what community members and frequent posters want. It felt like I was causing disruption here. I didn't make a thread to be validated. If everyone was telling me to get the hell out, I'd close my pages and leave. It sounds like the general response is that I should stay, and that if I want people to get along with me, I should change my attitude. We'll see how that goes but if I find myself unable to comply with that request I will leave at my own discretion. I simply will not stay if I cannot be civil in the forums and if I cannot make peace with those who I have disturbed enough that we frequently have conflict here.
Last edited by desideraht on February 26th, 2012, 3:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
My original manga is indefinitely on hiatus (sorry!).
It is going to be gutted and restarted because I started it prematurely.
Image
User avatar
desideraht
 
Posts: 518
Joined: January 28th, 2012, 7:37 pm

Next

Return to Life Issues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests