Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Inxerene » April 4th, 2011, 10:22 am

The world's just going into another phase. Remember when they did just Catholic art a long time ago? Every place did a Jesus piece or an Italian style of drawing. If you think about it, the world has gone through many phases. Cavemen drawings, for example, are EVERYWHERE. One piece looks appealing to another and then soon everyone adapts to it. Sooner or later, another super popular style will be born and everyone will stop doing Manga and go for that style.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 4th, 2011, 2:31 pm

I don't see much of a change until A) Everyone starts slinging poo at these "art" schools B) All of the old people die and we take their jobs C) We stop poisoning children with these false facts to back up the intolerants.

^And I hope every last one of those things happens very quickly. :D But the old people don't have to die. They just need to retire and stop being farts. lol

KLSeunnapha wrote:I completely understand the issue. I'm the kind of artist that dabbles in all kinds of art. Though mainly a manga-ish style I draw other styles too, even different ways of developing a style further through colour techniques or even inking style. I just like playing with and drawing all kinds of styles depending on my mood or story. In fact I like to give each of my stories different art styles, which is not only fun because I'm not stuck on one kind of art but helps me from having 'one character looks EXACTLY the same as the one in that other story you did' issue.

Personally, this approach works well for me, and I think is just fine, but apparently I think wrong... because it is not.

It's not just manga that gets the beating, though that IS the style most targeted today. I've been given the long boring speeches before, and no one seems to ever be able to make up their damn minds. 'Artists are supposed to stick to one style, it's preferred that you do and you have a much more likely chance of getting hired if you still to one style.' 'You should put all kinds of styles in your portfolio, people like to see that you're flexible in your art.' 'Don't include manga/anime style art in your portfolio, in fact just ...


It's all very frustrating =/

KonaTobennh wrote:
KLSeunnapha wrote:"Why are you drawing this? You're not Japanese."


I think this is a bit... "discriminating" thinking that Japan is the one that usually gets the credit of having this style, but that's my three cents.


Antitime wrote:It's not even just Asia. I think I mentioned it in my thread, but France and other parts of Europe have integrated more mangaesque styles into their mainstream. Not only do they have really stylish indie comics, but their cartoons, most notably Wakfu are usually in an anime type style. So I don't understand why America is so uptight about looking too Japanese. Maybe it's because we're scared because these countries are giving us a run for our money in so many categories?
haha, really, though, what I think it is, is the plethora of poorly done anime-like styles that are saturating the market and giving everyone else a bad rep.



More very good points and something else to blame on the meaning the word "manga" as we have let it twist to become.

Its definitely part of the money somewhere in there. And they figure we won't be as crazy to actually take our talents to Japan instead because of all of the competition there. But, for me, maaan if I knew Japanese I would definitely make that an adventure...

And, yes, there are some pretty bad things out there which I believe are a result of the bad teaching techniques of today. The idea of "if you change it JUST ENOUGH to not LOOK anime it is fine" is COMPLETELY wrong. Many of the results are TERRIBLE.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Flari » April 5th, 2011, 6:00 pm

I have had two art teachers my whole school time.
One didn't mind whatever style I was drawing in. The other one would like to draw all our pictures himself because he just cannot seem to like ANY specific style.
For my part, my art style varies a lot!
I once drew three little pictures in the time of one hour and looking at them afterwards I could not believe that I did three so different styles of drawing in such a short time. They looked like they were all drawn by different persons.
Art style is not something you can define, you can analyse it, you can say they have big round eyes, small thin eyes or even big thin eyes (does this make sense?) But you can never define a style of someone in a group. Somewhere everyone is insprired by someone or something, and if it's not comic or manga or the art of someone else it's nature and the natural looks of everything.
Being discriminating about art or even racistic is like being being discriminating about clothes, hairstyles or even the worst: the body of every human like it is build since birth!
It is just not right, it's not fair and not judgeable. But it always existed and it will probably never change too. The egyptians already found the roman "art style" disgusting. And think of it, they DID copy one style.
Manga is a description of a style of DOING A COMIC, as we define drawn picture follow ups that equal a storyline, just in the eastern way of reading. THIS and nothing else is the definiton of Manga. Drawn pictures that make a story with mostly written sound effects, speech bubbles and lots of panels in the eastern reading way.
Comic is about the same just in the western reading way.
But people are silly and so they say either: "OMGSH MANGA U R SO KYUTE, KAWAIIII"
Or: "Draw something real, stick to western style of drawing!"

And if we all convert to renessaince drawings again someone will say: stop doing that and take on a more modern art style.
It's sad to see but humanity is build on things like this, it's called sociality!

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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby teurastaa » April 5th, 2011, 6:06 pm

I went to an art college for animation. And one thing that all my teachers hated was the "Japanimation" style. They would always say anime style is "Limited", and "choppy." I know they're only thinking of Pokemon, Sailor Moon and Dragon ball Z. It's just frustrating that when your style is anime-ish, they'd automatically assume you're animation would be bad.
One of my teachers discovered death not and the brilliant animation and style it is... and accepted the style. Now to make the other teachers watch Brave Story or something... >_>
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 5th, 2011, 6:33 pm

not to sound like a jerk here but i personally despise the "american" style with a coal burning passion
so if i was told
"draw american"
i'd probably get pretty pissed
the thing is though that american tends to mean "superhero" and japanese tends to mean "manga"

yet there are many different styles that don't fit in with either and i personally love them like tessa stone's hinabn style
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and phobs' style from DA is pretty awesome too
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but when we say american it tends to mean this-
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and manga this-
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it's all just based on bad stereotypes
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby gevans1961 » April 5th, 2011, 7:02 pm

I agree with D2k. People have alot of bad stereotypes about manga but, I wish they would dig deeper if they want to critizise something.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 6th, 2011, 11:37 am

All very true statements.

gevans1961 wrote:I agree with D2k. People have alot of bad stereotypes about manga but, I wish they would dig deeper if they want to critizise something.


Stereotypes, as far as psychology goes, always have something true in them and some untrue. People latch onto the true part and run with it, unfortunately. But there are a LOT of holes in the stereotype for manga.

And I agree, d2K :O Those styles are eyegasms! They make me happy to look at haha
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby trenton_dawn » April 6th, 2011, 9:27 pm

American pop culture has never really been that accepting of other styles, especially the more "foreign" ones. For example, many people criticized British Invasion-era bands during the height of their popularity, often because they perceived as being unoriginal or faddish, and sometimes because they were viewed as taking away from more deserving American bands. I would imagine similar sentiments to hold true with the manga vs. cartoon debate.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 7th, 2011, 12:03 am

trenton_dawn wrote:American pop culture has never really been that accepting of other styles, especially the more "foreign" ones. For example, many people criticized British Invasion-era bands during the height of their popularity, often because they perceived as being unoriginal or faddish, and sometimes because they were viewed as taking away from more deserving American bands. I would imagine similar sentiments to hold true with the manga vs. cartoon debate.


I guess we could all say the same about fashion. We like to see our designers create wacky things but we aren't as accepting of say... a gothic lolita passing by casually XD Half of the people living in the US would do a back flip and crash into the pavement.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby mayshing » April 8th, 2011, 1:08 am

It's nationalism. Not racism.

Even in the eastern countries where people all look yellow, we still have that "japanese manga" problem, in fact we have one more, the "Disney problem" where studios trained by Disney schooling produced Disney looking films and the people looked down at it for that.

The problem is manga/anime style, with the current "trend" the element is too recognizable, that's what made them famous.
So if you adopted anything from them, it's quickly recognized and thus gain this discrimination.
To Japanese who does European style they don't get the same discrimination as the trendy manga/anime style.

The older generation tend to feel uneasy with the change.
It's like their young kids telling them "I don't want to do what you do anymore, this other new thing is cooler!"

Older generation: "Noooo that's not how it's done! Sorry, kid, you can do what you like but i run the business and i give the jobs, if you don't do what i do i can't give you one. Period."
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 9th, 2011, 3:05 am

mayshing wrote:It's nationalism. Not racism.

Even in the eastern countries where people all look yellow, we still have that "japanese manga" problem, in fact we have one more, the "Disney problem" where studios trained by Disney schooling produced Disney looking films and the people looked down at it for that.


Ah, there is the word I was looking for! And I would imagine that to be so as well...
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby mossi-mo » April 9th, 2011, 3:17 pm

I would tell someone to 'get better' at what they do. I'd call it discrimination, since American isn't really a race... it's a place. Ethnocentric maybe.

But as for 'American vs Manga' I really don't have a preference. I think a Japanese artist can draw the X man just as well as Stan Lee, and it has been proven that an American (Felipe Smith & Peepo Choo) can draw well enough to make it in the Japanese industry. I think a lot of people forget that early manga style (astroboy etc) was influenced by American cartoons (Betty Boop). There's really only so many ways to put lines down on paper. It's silly to nitpick about style. If someone is really that bothered by it, tell them to go and learn to draw American/Manga themselves so they don't have to worry about your work.

I'm sure someone told Picasso to put the eyes in one line and the nose in the middle. But he was good enough not to really care what anyone said. Draw what you want how you want and get better.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Guest » April 11th, 2011, 10:20 pm

mossi-mo wrote:Ethnocentric maybe.


Another good word for this.

mossi-mo wrote:But as for 'American vs Manga' I really don't have a preference. I think a Japanese artist can draw the X man just as well as Stan Lee, and it has been proven that an American (Felipe Smith & Peepo Choo) can draw well enough to make it in the Japanese industry. I think a lot of people forget that early manga style (astroboy etc) was influenced by American cartoons (Betty Boop).


Right and it is also much easier to get something published over there. As for things like Betty Boop, it is the same thing with music. People in Japan were inspired by things in America such as glam rock. The ideas morphed in Japan and are having a hard time making their way back into the industries they came from some 20+ years later, but they are well accepted by the younger generations.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Tanako » April 14th, 2011, 12:44 am

Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

New postby eishiya » April 2nd, 2011, 9:51 pm
Before manga, it was the exact same thing about people drawing superheroes. It's not racism, it's just discrimination about the current in-thing with artists. Some of it has solid basis (ie, most of these people are copying superficial traits rather than learning the important theory), some of it is just the plain old "it's new/popular, so I hate it" mentality.


you are absolutely right, its funny how i almost got into a argument about this topic on 4 chan, because they were saying manga/ anime is not art and i asked them why they feel that way and they couldn't explain it.
to my understanding there just people who fail to realize the beauty of art. it comes in different ways & form it doesn't have limits.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Austupaio » June 24th, 2011, 2:36 am

It's not nationalism nor racism due to it not being about the artist. This really goes for most people, although they might construe their thoughts as racist/nationalist because that's what they think it is. People tend to think that because they hate something in particular, they must hate the inventors. This is common human hyperbole.

I dislike weeaboo art, read; manga, and it has nothing to do with the fact that it's made by the Japanese. Nor who authored it. It's just silly.
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Respectively;
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As for ' America v. Japan ' when it comes to art, I'd argue America doesn't have a style. It's simply to young a country, nothing originated here except for this.
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Which, while rather cool, doesn't aspire to story telling.
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