Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby IDONTKNOWCORP » September 12th, 2018, 10:19 pm

Bless ya, Dan. Thanks for all the hardwork over the years and hope this is a good change for you :)

Gonna keep making silly comics on this site till I don't some day <3
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby JoKeR » September 13th, 2018, 9:33 am

I'm always sceptical about this kind of stuff... and share the same feelings as many of the previous posters.

I hope we don't change into a Webtoon reading mechanic, because that's "better" for mobile readers. Classical page-2-page is the SJ way :lol:
And please don't touch the individual page designs. It's part of the SJ experience to discover new customised (or from scratch made) templates.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Paulie Blade » September 13th, 2018, 10:32 am

JoKeR wrote:I'm always sceptical about this kind of stuff... and share the same feelings as many of the previous posters.

I hope we don't change into a Webtoon reading mechanic, because that's "better" for mobile readers. Classical page-2-page is the SJ way :lol:
And please don't touch the individual page designs. It's part of the SJ experience to discover new customised (or from scratch made) templates.

So much this. The biggest reason I prefer SmackJeeves over WebToons or Tapas is that there's no pressure here to post in a vertical format.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Respheal » September 13th, 2018, 11:17 am

Yeah the ability to customize the website fully is a must for me. I'm in a rather unique position of being able to host my comic on my own at no cost (job stuff), but I still opt to subscribe to SJ because it's just less headache for me.

That said, I do have some concerns over the new ToS: https://www.smackjeeves.com/terms_of_use.php

First, this looks to leave no room for fancomics, even parodies? Should there be a Fair Use provision, or is this counting on implied Fair Use?

Second, I have some concerns about Naver's handling of iframes, which I've sent you a message about on Discord, but it basically boils down to crippling Archive Binge, which I'm hoping won't be the case or that we can work something out there.

accept as set forth in this Agreement
'accept' -> 'except'
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Seven Rain » September 13th, 2018, 2:45 pm

Since SJ already has it's own built-in mobile viewer that's distinct from the desktop versions of sites, we hopefully don't have to worry about something like our customization disappearing. It's actually pretty perfect that way and I'm surprised more sites didn't opt for it.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Cave » September 13th, 2018, 7:09 pm

Respheal wrote:Yeah the ability to customize the website fully is a must for me. I'm in a rather unique position of being able to host my comic on my own at no cost (job stuff), but I still opt to subscribe to SJ because it's just less headache for me.

That said, I do have some concerns over the new ToS: https://www.smackjeeves.com/terms_of_use.php

First, this looks to leave no room for fancomics, even parodies? Should there be a Fair Use provision, or is this counting on implied Fair Use?

Second, I have some concerns about Naver's handling of iframes, which I've sent you a message about on Discord, but it basically boils down to crippling Archive Binge, which I'm hoping won't be the case or that we can work something out there.

accept as set forth in this Agreement
'accept' -> 'except'


I did skim a bit but from what I read it seems pretty reasonable/standard. In actuality, copyright holders have the right to shut down even fanart whenever they want to, it would just be incredibly frowned upon (and it is something that has happened). I think what's there is basically what you would find generally in ToS's, but it's the enforcing of the ToS that matters. If they decide they want to be super strict about it or whatnot. SmackJeeves has always been a very open place in regards to content so hopefully it will stay that way with the mature content filter. I can't really imagine them going around shutting down every Sonic sprite comic and if they did... heh, well, it would go extremely poorly to say the least and would definitely be a nail in the coffin.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Amante » September 14th, 2018, 9:59 am

Thanks for all your hard work over the years, Dan! I hope this acquisition helps to take a load off of your shoulders and lets you take the site continually to where you want it to be.
Any SJ related questions? Feel free to look around, and if you can't find an answer, make a topic here and we'll get to you as fast as we can! :D

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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby eishiya » September 14th, 2018, 9:04 pm

The "Intellectual Property" portion of the new ToS makes it sound like NHN owns all pages posted to the site, since they are "displayed on, provided on, or otherwise made available through the Website by NHN." I'm guessing that's not the intended meaning (it's probably meant to apply only to those materials made by NHN), and I think that needs to be clarified.

The only way to withdraw the user's license for NHN's use of their content even by removing it from the website is to contact them directly, which isn't right. Removing content from the website should automatically retract the license, one should not have to write in.

"You also consent to receiving other communications from NHN, including newsletters about NHN, new Website features and content, special offers, promotional announcements, and advertisements, and other information via email or other methods."
This is just nasty. This is the sort of thing that belongs behind an additional checkbox, not as part of the ToS that's required for use of the site.

The new ToS in general is a PITA to read compared to the old one. I know NHN has to cover its butt, but surely it can be made more pleasant. For example, employ <li>sts for things with subsections, and don't use all caps for the liability section. There's also a lot of redundant language that's not necessary even in the event of a court case (unless judges are pickier in California xP).
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby JoKeR » September 15th, 2018, 7:12 am

eishiya wrote:The "Intellectual Property" portion of the new ToS makes it sound like NHN owns all pages posted to the site, since they are "displayed on, provided on, or otherwise made available through the Website by NHN." I'm guessing that's not the intended meaning (it's probably meant to apply only to those materials made by NHN), and I think that needs to be clarified.

The only way to withdraw the user's license for NHN's use of their content even by removing it from the website is to contact them directly, which isn't right. Removing content from the website should automatically retract the license, one should not have to write in.

"You also consent to receiving other communications from NHN, including newsletters about NHN, new Website features and content, special offers, promotional announcements, and advertisements, and other information via email or other methods."
This is just nasty. This is the sort of thing that belongs behind an additional checkbox, not as part of the ToS that's required for use of the site.

The new ToS in general is a PITA to read compared to the old one. I know NHN has to cover its butt, but surely it can be made more pleasant. For example, employ <li>sts for things with subsections, and don't use all caps for the liability section. There's also a lot of redundant language that's not necessary even in the event of a court case (unless judges are pickier in California xP).

↑↑↑ THIS!!! ↑↑↑

The wording in many sections sounds too vague or mis-interpretable. I don't know if I want to stay on SJ when this ToS will be in effect.
And I didn't even spot the part with the newsletter... :|
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Soft Dorito » September 15th, 2018, 2:14 pm

JoKeR wrote:
eishiya wrote:The "Intellectual Property" portion of the new ToS makes it sound like NHN owns all pages posted to the site, since they are "displayed on, provided on, or otherwise made available through the Website by NHN." I'm guessing that's not the intended meaning (it's probably meant to apply only to those materials made by NHN), and I think that needs to be clarified.
Spoiler! :
The only way to withdraw the user's license for NHN's use of their content even by removing it from the website is to contact them directly, which isn't right. Removing content from the website should automatically retract the license, one should not have to write in.

"You also consent to receiving other communications from NHN, including newsletters about NHN, new Website features and content, special offers, promotional announcements, and advertisements, and other information via email or other methods."
This is just nasty. This is the sort of thing that belongs behind an additional checkbox, not as part of the ToS that's required for use of the site.

The new ToS in general is a PITA to read compared to the old one. I know NHN has to cover its butt, but surely it can be made more pleasant. For example, employ <li>sts for things with subsections, and don't use all caps for the liability section. There's also a lot of redundant language that's not necessary even in the event of a court case (unless judges are pickier in California xP).

↑↑↑ THIS!!! ↑↑↑

The wording in many sections sounds too vague or mis-interpretable. I don't know if I want to stay on SJ when this ToS will be in effect.
And I didn't even spot the part with the newsletter... :|

Whoa...! Yeah, no thank you. Can this be clarified? Because I think I'd rather jump ship too if it says they own whatever someone puts on the site. Handing over your art/writing is not why people like to use the site...
I'm trying. :)
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Admin » September 15th, 2018, 6:31 pm

Thanks for bringing up these issues and concerns, guys. I'll go over them with our legal team.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Respheal » September 16th, 2018, 2:31 pm

The legal team will need to confirm this, but the Intellectual Propety section, as I'm reading it, is nothing to be worried about (and I was scouring that section to be sure hahaha). The Intellectual Property section is referring specifically to NHN's property:

"NHN retains all rights, titles and interests in and to any and all items, data, materials, information and content created, by, authored by, owned by, displayed on, provided on, or otherwise made available through the Website by NHN [...] (collectively, the “NHN’s Content”)" (Emphasis mine)


tl;dr NHN retains ownership of the stuff they upload which is their own content.

Us creators have this section:

"NHN claims no ownership or control over any User Content posted. The author of User Content retains all patent, trademark, and copyright to all User Content posted within available fields, and is responsible for protecting those rights, but is not entitled to the help of Website staff in protecting such User Content, accept as may be set forth in the Copyright Policy."


In short this means we retain all rights to our own content (as long as it truly is our own content and not....y'know, video game sprites or whatnot) and it's your responsibility to police the distribution of your own content. If you find your comic getting rehosted somewhere, it's your responsibility to send a takedown notice, which is reasonable.

tl;dr the IP rights are fine. I do agree on the newsletter point though. Transactional emails sure, but newsletters really need to be optional.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby JoKeR » September 16th, 2018, 4:37 pm

Respheal wrote:In short this means we retain all rights to our own content (as long as it truly is our own content and not....y'know, video game sprites or whatnot)

But aren't sprite comics already manifold existent on SJ? This would kill a huge amount of those comics. Or am I mistaken and sprite comics with copyrighted content are already not allowed on SJ?
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby eishiya » September 16th, 2018, 5:20 pm

JoKeR wrote:
Respheal wrote:In short this means we retain all rights to our own content (as long as it truly is our own content and not....y'know, video game sprites or whatnot)

But aren't sprite comics already manifold existent on SJ? This would kill a huge amount of those comics. Or am I mistaken and sprite comics with copyrighted content are already not allowed on SJ?

They're already not allowed, but Admin turns a blind eye to them as long as the copyright owners don't make a fuss about it. I hope that state of affairs continues, but I'd not be surprised if NHN is stricter about copyright stuff.
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Re: Smack Jeeves + NHN Global

Postby Darkhalo4321 » September 17th, 2018, 12:02 am

I'm looking forward to seeing how this shapes and grows SJ. I've been here for over 10 years making comics, and slowly churning out pages, and I feel that my loyalty paid off somehow- Hopefully, this turns into a good thing! I'd be a little lost without SJ, but I have faith that the Admin knows what he's doing and would not have taken this decision, especially since he's so passionate about it, lightly.
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