Kingdom Hearts General

Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Seven Rain » December 17th, 2011, 6:48 pm

KirbyHead wrote:Tell me when Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out on a console. I'm getting tired of all these side games.

Won't be until well after Versus, unfortunately.

I don't really tire of the side games since most of them aren't terribly important to the story, making them easy to ignore, but BBS is cool. More of a prequel than a side game really... And 3D is going to be more like a 2.5 than another side game, but whatevs. I can't wait for KH3 either but yeah... Versus is coming first, and that's still a ways off. In fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if KH3 was a PS4 title, haha.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Amante » December 17th, 2011, 7:38 pm

Crystalbear wrote:
KirbyHead wrote:Tell me when Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out on a console. I'm getting tired of all these side games.


Oh, so you'd rather have KH 3 be a rushed game and have it turn out like crap as a result of being rushed.

I'm getting tired of all of these complaints about the side games.

No one said anything about it being rushed. Just being tired of these side games, which I totally agree with. The only one we really needed that made sense was the one with Organization 13's backstory, thought even that is debatable.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Afrohawkman » December 17th, 2011, 8:01 pm

The only thing I don't like about the side games is the split with the consoles. I can somewhat agree that the stories weren't really all that important, and, in most cases, the rest of the story would have done fine without them but now that they're here you miss out on some of the story if you didn't play the games. They're all great games though. I absolutely adore the command system they created and I really hope they bring it in for the big KH3 just because of how awesome it is. They've gotten really inventive over the years.

I think that's kind of what CrystalBear is getting at. The fact that they've had so much experience over the years with gameplay, characters, story and general writing, music, and graphics means KH3 is going to be absolutely spectacular. I know some people are tired of the "side games" but I'm glad they took that direction. I feel like Nomura had a purpose for it and the experience they've gained will be shown in the final installment. I...just pray it's not a PS3 exclusive. Nothing against Sony or anything, but they put all but 1 side game, that's 4 counting 3D, on Nintendo systems. I know the first two were Sony exclusives but I'd be downright pissed if it was a PS3 exclusive. I don't have the ability to play it like I did for the first two...

AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! KH3D's take on Dearly Beloved! It's a classic remastered but I really love the way they designed this. It sounds amazing, and the middle part is a great touch. Makes it feel more festive :)
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Crystalbear » December 17th, 2011, 8:12 pm

The side games build up on the story of future console titles, as was the case with KH2.

Let's pretend that every single side game did not exist and we got KH3, which had a story built on the side-games. But because the side games didn't exist, KH3's story would then make no sense. We'd all go "Huh? I don't get it, it's referring to something that the other two games didn't mention before. Is there something missing in the series?" While everyone else claims that the stories of the side games are unimportant, I think otherwise.

I'd much rather have a KH3 with built-on story than one that is rushed and makes no sense.

But hey, not like it matters to me anyway, since I don't have a PS and probably won't ever be getting one. Maybe that's why I like the looks of some of the side games, because they're the only things I can play. <_<
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Seven Rain » December 17th, 2011, 9:29 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! KH3D's take on Dearly Beloved!

I don't like it as much as the original but I definitely like it more than KH2's.

I really loved the KH3D version of "Fragments of Sorrow" from one of the trailers, but I doubt there's a YT upload anywhere yet.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Mr Aids » December 17th, 2011, 10:53 pm

Amante wrote:
Crystalbear wrote:
KirbyHead wrote:Tell me when Kingdom Hearts 3 comes out on a console. I'm getting tired of all these side games.


Oh, so you'd rather have KH 3 be a rushed game and have it turn out like crap as a result of being rushed.

I'm getting tired of all of these complaints about the side games.

No one said anything about it being rushed. Just being tired of these side games, which I totally agree with. The only one we really needed that made sense was the one with Organization 13's backstory, thought even that is debatable.


I agree. Let's look at some dates here.

Kingdom Hearts 1: Released 2002.

Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories released 2004.
"Here guys, something to play while KH2 is being developed."

Kingdom Hearts 2: Released 2006.
"Sorry for the wait guys, hope you love it!"

Then Kingdom Hearts Coded released in Japan in 2008, 358/2 Days in 2009, Birth By Sleep in 2010, and now another game set for 2012, with KH3 not even being developed. Really? Fucking really? I'm not going to buy every single fucking handheld console on the planet just to tide me over until the release of KH3. Stop dicking around Square Enix, I think 5 years and 4 side games is pushing it, don't you?
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Afrohawkman » December 17th, 2011, 11:03 pm

Mr Aids wrote:Stop dicking around Square Enix, I think 5 years and 4 side games is pushing it, don't you?

Apparently not. (also you skipped Re:Coded. I think that was this year)

I don't see the big deal honestly. I figure they're definitely working up to something big, but the main reason they probably released all these side games other than to make money is to tell their story better. I don't know Nomura but if I were the writer and I had these great ideas for the series that weren't exactly well explained and wanted to explain them before going onto what's probably the epic climax, I'd explain those first. I know it'd get some fans up in a tizzy about it but if it makes the overall dramatic reveal at the end that much more satisfying, I'd go for it.

Try to understand it from the developer's point of view. They're not just milking the series. If they wanted to milk a series, they wouldn't tie all of the games together like that. They're not pulling any of this out of their asses either, it's very clear that the storylines all meet up and have their own purpose.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Crystalbear » December 17th, 2011, 11:08 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:Apparently not. (also you skipped Re:Coded. I think that was this year)

I don't see the big deal honestly. I figure they're definitely working up to something big, but the main reason they probably released all these side games other than to make money is to tell their story better. I don't know Nomura but if I were the writer and I had these great ideas for the series that weren't exactly well explained and wanted to explain them before going onto what's probably the epic climax, I'd explain those first. I know it'd get some fans up in a tizzy about it but if it makes the overall dramatic reveal at the end that much more satisfying, I'd go for it.

Try to understand it from the developer's point of view. They're not just milking the series. If they wanted to milk a series, they wouldn't tie all of the games together like that. They're not pulling any of this out of their asses either, it's very clear that the storylines all meet up and have their own purpose.


Just this, all of this.

Frankly I feel like KH is getting the same fan treatment as the Zelda franchise, what with the fandom going on that only the console games are important and bitching with every new handheld game when those games do in fact fit in the timeline somewhere.

If KH3 makes references to all of the handheld games, that is, important references relating to the plot, I swear I'll be laughing at every other fan who had complained.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Mr Aids » December 17th, 2011, 11:39 pm

Crystalbear wrote:Frankly I feel like KH is getting the same fan treatment as the Zelda franchise, what with the fandom going on that only the console games are important and bitching with every new handheld game when those games do in fact fit in the timeline somewhere.

If KH3 makes references to all of the handheld games, that is, important references relating to the plot, I swear I'll be laughing at every other fan who had complained.


Comparing KH with Zelda isn't really valid. The Zelda games aren't really linked (pardon the pun) as the story is different each time, but the same winning formula is applied to each game. Be the hero, save the world/princess from the villian by going through dungeons etc. You could have picked up the game at any point, from the early NES days, to the games currently on the Wii and enjoyed the game fully without having played the others because there are no sequels. The same could be said for the Final Fantasy series save for a few games.

With Kingdom Hearts, because the story is linked you're almost forced to play every game in the series because in the end KH3 is going to reference every single game. You could have played KH2 without every playing Chain of Memories but those that did got to experience the full story. You may think that they're just trying to make a better story Afrohawkman but it's clear that they're milking the series, because there is such a thing as too much plot. Square Enix has been guilty of this in the past, even when side games haven't been involved. The same can be said for the Metal Gear series, for example. I'm not saying the games in question were bad, but the story did leave the fans confused and all they took away from the plot were the basic points because there was such an overload of information.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Seven Rain » December 18th, 2011, 12:25 am

Another thing to keep in mind is that Nomura and the main KH Team aren't the ones doing all of these side games or making KH3's development time take longer or anything. I mean yeah it's KH so he probably has a little bit of involvement in all of them but it's not like he or Square are purposefully taking longer to make KH3 just to release smaller titles and make money. Again; It's because of Versus. That has been Nomura's primary project since like before 2006, along with the rest of the main Kingdom Hearts team, (as in the team that made the PS2 titles, not all the handheld games.) He can't and won't move on to KH3 until Versus XIII is complete and released, in fact it's already been stated that;
The game is being developed closely along side Kingdom Hearts 3D: Dream Drop Distance, and according to Nomura, Versus is a "showcase" of the battle system that will be used in Kingdom Hearts 3.


So yeah. They're not just hiding KH3 away in a trunk somewhere waiting for us to pay ransom money by buying side games, the portable games are just being released while Nomura and the KH team work on the real core project at the moment before moving on to KH3 development.
As for the complaint of some of them being story important that's a different matter, one that I kind of agree on being a bit BS. I had no idea what the fuck was going on at the beginning of KH2 because I missed COM, haha.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Crystalbear » December 18th, 2011, 12:26 am

@Mr. Aids:

Direct sequels do exist in the Zelda franchise, not to mention that everything is connected by the split timeline. I'm just saying that the complaints I see in the KH fandom sort of remind me of those from the Zelda fandom.

And sorry, but I don't feel forced to play every game in KH. It's not like I can anyway. I can see where you're coming from, I once considered the last DS one, but decided against it since I probably wouldn't have been able to follow it.

However, DDD then announced the Notre-Dame world. I want the game nearly solely because of that world, I'm a diehard fan of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, and that is all the incentive I need to play this game. Sure I won't get what the fuck is happening with the story, but I don't really care. THANKFULLY however, most of the stories are told via cutscenes, so I can easily spoil myself on the other games via youtube. That or I can simply read about everything that has happened up to this point, it'll still give me an idea of what is happening.

You may think that the only way a person can enjoy KH is to play every game, but I don't.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Seven Rain » December 18th, 2011, 12:31 am

Crystalbear wrote:However, DDD then announced the Notre-Dame world. I want the game nearly solely because of that world, I'm a diehard fan of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, and that is all the incentive I need to play this game.

I... I don't know how much research you've done on the series but I just think you should know that the worlds in KH don't tend to be very long. There's always the very likely chance that you'll fall in love with the game anyway but don't go into it expecting Notre-Dame to take up more than 10% of the game. There tends to be around a dozen worlds in KH and the largest of which are usually the story-important original ones, not the Disney ones.
Not trying to turn you off to the game, but I don't want your heart to sink after you finish Notre-Dame in case you were expecting more.



Crystalbear wrote:You may think that the only way a person can enjoy KH is to play every game, but I don't.

Agreed. I couldn't care less that I missed out on 358/2 days and COM, haha.

And there are always wikis. While not a glamorous way to catch up on story you missed it can be helpful nonetheless.
Last edited by Seven Rain on December 18th, 2011, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Crystalbear » December 18th, 2011, 12:34 am

Seven Rain wrote:
Crystalbear wrote:However, DDD then announced the Notre-Dame world. I want the game nearly solely because of that world, I'm a diehard fan of Disney's The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, and that is all the incentive I need to play this game.

I... I don't know how much research you've done on the series but I just think you should know that the worlds in KH don't tend to be very long. There's always the very likely chance that you'll fall in love with the game anyway but don't go into it expecting Notre-Dame to take up more than 10% of the game if that. There tends to be around a dozen worlds in KH and the largest of which are usually the story-important original ones, not the Disney ones.
Not trying to turn you off to the game, but I don't want your heart to sink after you finish Notre-Dame in case you were expecting more.


That doesn't matter so much to me. It's still Notre-Dame, that's all what matters to me, so I'll still get a kick out of it even if ends up being the shortest world in the entire game.

Besides, I like most Disney things. Unlike nearly every other KH player on the planet, I'm interested in KH mostly for the Disney factor and not so much the Square Enix factor. Not saying that Square is bad or anything, I do enjoy their classic FF titles. KH still has Disney, so there.
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby Seven Rain » December 18th, 2011, 12:38 am

Fair enough, haha.

Also stupid browser. I don't even remember doing an edit after you posted, what the...
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Re: Kingdom Hearts General

Postby tveye » December 18th, 2011, 12:45 am

Mr Aids wrote:Then Kingdom Hearts Coded released in Japan in 2008, 358/2 Days in 2009, Birth By Sleep in 2010, and now another game set for 2012, with KH3 not even being developed. Really? Fucking really? I'm not going to buy every single fucking handheld console on the planet just to tide me over until the release of KH3. Stop dicking around Square Enix, I think 5 years and 4 side games is pushing it, don't you?


I think KH3D is going to be pretty important.

And another thing, these aren't side games, they just take place in a weird order...the only ones I can truly call side games are CoM (because it talks about how Sora ended up at Castle Oblivion and why he was in that weird lotus pod), 358/2 Days (because it showed what the other Organization members were doing when Sora was having his little adventure/sleep), and Coded (because...well, it's a cell phone game). But even then, CoM introduced Organization XIII who were EXTREMELY important characters in KH2. Granted, Sora had his memory wiped so they had the chance to re-explain who they were to the 1% of the world who didn't own a GBA. 358/2 Days was vital because it made gave a ton of exposition on Roxas and Xion, as well as the other members who would later play a part in Sora's journey.

BbS is definitely NOT a side story. It has new worlds and the main characters will be HUGE in KH3.
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