I love video games, but consoles....

I love video games, but consoles....

Postby MK_Wizard » January 12th, 2018, 8:36 am

I have a confession to make: I no longer love consoles. I adore video games and such, but consoles are something I can no longer get into. I mean, every few months, a new one is always being made? When my family has our NES and SNES, those consoles lasted for years and people concentrated on making great games. Now, consoles have become like iPhones; they're status symbols. And because they are coming out so fast, they're coming out too early and aren't that great. I mean, think the Wii-U. And now, I hear that the Nintendo Switch is not that great which makes me sad really because I love Nintendo. And makes me sadder is that new games lack in quality too because of it. There are times when I think consoles just had their time and we should just play our video games on our tablets, computers and phones. We can attach them to our TVs anyway or have video game apps not consoles.

Does anyone else feel this way?

PS: I am not knocking video games. I still love them and always will. I just think that maybe we ought to concentrate on games and not on consoles. I mean, what does it matter where you're playing the game in so long as you enjoy playing the game itself?
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby HalfAssedChaos » January 12th, 2018, 9:28 am

Where are you hearing that the Switch isn't that great? It's freaking amazing! It's been pretty much widely touted as one of the greatest consoles developed in recent memory, and potentially the greatest Nintendo Console.

Consoles still have a long life span, about 6 years or so until news of the next and usually a good decade before the next is released.

So lets take the SNES for an example, came out in 91 in the US. N64 came out in 96. Gamecube 2001.

The timeframes don't really get any shorter, what does get shorter is our concept of time. When we are kids days seem longer, but as we grow up it kind of blurs together and speeds up. The days of the SNES seemed like they lasted forever in our memories, but the timeframes were about equal to todays standards.

Personally I'm pretty excited as to what they are doing now, they are moving towards upgrade able systems to where perhaps in the future we may not need to get new systems but be able to swap out modular components (like a PC) to get better performance if we desire.

As for games, there are plenty of amazing games still coming out! But it is a larger market, so there are a lot more people trying to appeal to a much larger and wider variety of people. Now we need to do our research a bit more to try and find the genres that appeal to us. It's like any hobby really, as it gets more popular it expands and draws in new people. The market is going to move towards that so it can stay alive.

Are there crappy practices in play by some of the larger producers, absolutely. Are there still amazing games being developed without these practices, hell yeah there are!

Also again on the Switch, I can't say enough about it, it is so freaking fun!
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby Seven Rain » January 12th, 2018, 9:43 am

Status symbols? New consoles every few months? Tablets and phones in place of consoles?
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No offense intended my friend but I think you're a little detached is all. You seem to simply see/approach the hobby differently than other people compared to when you were younger. Things haven't really changed much sans a few business practices and the effect the internet has had on gaming.

I appreciate the attempts at stirring up some fresh discussion over here, though. Nothin' wrong with that.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby eishiya » January 12th, 2018, 10:08 am

My problem with modern consoles is that aside from Nintendo's stuff, they seem to just be mediocre gaming PCs. They require upgrades/replacements every few years to run the newest AAA games at their intended specs (but we're no longer making huge leaps in quality), they require massive set-up time for the games (downloads, lengthy installs, day 1 patches, day 2 hotfixes, it hasn't been "pop the disc/cart in and it just works" since the PS2 days), they seem to require a new firmware update every time there's a new AAA game out...

With the expectation that games will be out for all the major platforms and with games being too big to completely rewrite for a new console, plus having to support multiple versions of the same console, devs have to make their games mostly hardware-agnostic with only minimal optimization for the specific hardware - just like PC games. So, there doesn't seem to be much benefit even for developers. This is only going to get worse as the years go on and the PS4 and XBO get more versions.

I just don't see the point of them anymore. Admittedly, I'm also someone who has to have a decent PC for non-gaming reasons, so to me having a second PC that does only games is redundant and inconvenient. I guess if you do all your daily computing on a mobile device, a relatively affordable machine that runs shiny games is appealing and not at all redundant.


What's wrong with the Switch? I've never tried it, but people who have one seem to love it, Joycon wonkiness aside? Game-wise, it seems to be doing fine. Plenty of first-party games, and it's not been out a year so devs and publishers are still testing the waters with ports instead of making a lot of original third-party content, which is pretty common.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby HalfAssedChaos » January 12th, 2018, 10:39 am

To add a bit more to this, it's actually really REALLY important that we have multiple console choices.

One of the big things that drive the industry are exclusives, and I know there are people out there who wish every game could come out on ever console, but think of how bad that would be. No one would be striving, or putting money towards, unique experiences in a singular place to move the industry ahead. We may not have titles like The Last of Us, Bloodborne, and Horizon Zero Dawn (yes I prefer sony exclusives by a large margin).

People may not like exclusives because they need the system to play them, but if everything was just a singular PC based commerce then there is a good chance that the medium would stagnate with competition. Competition is what drives companies to go out and make unique and better experiences to draw in a larger consumer base. It's not always a knockout, but sometimes we get things that are very special and remind us why we got into the medium in the first place.

Also as far as games on tablets and phones...haven't really found one that lives up to really anything. Honestly really don't like most except for maybe taking it to the bathroom.
But now I can Skyrim in there on my switch, or rock out with Splatoon and rocket league. So, yeah I think if anything that's mainly just a marketplace for F2P toxic practices. XCom is on it though, that's pretty cool.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby eishiya » January 12th, 2018, 10:56 am

HalfAssedChaos wrote:People may not like exclusives because they need the system to play them, but if everything was just a singular PC based commerce then there is a good chance that the medium would stagnate with competition. Competition is what drives companies to go out and make unique and better experiences to draw in a larger consumer base. It's not always a knockout, but sometimes we get things that are very special and remind us why we got into the medium in the first place.

You speak of PCs as if there's only one company making PC hardware, and only one company making all the games on any given platform. That's not at all the case.

Hardware companies are in competition to create better hardware as they always have been. A great example is that of GPUs. Nvidia and AMD are the two big players who drive most of the improvement in GPUs, but their competition doesn't create exclusivity because they support largely the same open standards. This allows both consumers and developers to choose a favoured technology/hardware on a very granular level. Favouring Nvidia one year doesn't lock you out of any games or out of switching to AMD in the future - instead you just get to see the game maybe run a little better or a little worse, or better but with less shininess if the game uses some chipset-specific technology (e.g. Nvidia HairWorks). Because they can't rely on exclusives to drive sales, they have to keep improving the actual hardware and drivers.

Game developers are all in competition for our time and money with each other, regardless of platform. If customers were able to access all the games, they would be more able to vote with their wallets and time on what they like. This allows for more competition! Exclusives make it harder for customers to support what they like. Exclusives do not benefit customers, they benefit the companies making them - they drive sales of the platform, and the developer gets paid for driving those sales. Of course there is an incentive to make a good game so that it can drive sales that way, but there is an incentive to make a good game, to improve tech, etc even in the absence of exclusives, because they're in competition with thousands of other developers. Exclusives are just a manifestation of competition between consoles (i.e. between a very small number of companies), they do not help in the more granular competition that drives improvement in gameplay, stories, diversity, etc. They drive customers to choose platforms for reasons other than those platforms' actual merits, but rather based on the merits of those exclusive games. They also don't provide incentives for console manufacturers to improve the hardware, because they'll be made and bought for whatever hardware anyway, being exclusive to it.

The only benefit to platform exclusives is that developers can focus on taking full advantage of the platform's features, instead of trying to make it run well everywhere. But with all the non-Nintendo platforms being so similar these days, this at best translates to running at a slightly more consistent framerate :/
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby HalfAssedChaos » January 12th, 2018, 11:20 am

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this part then. I agree about what you said about PC, I wasn't particularly talking about it as it is very different than the console scene in general.

But as far as exclusives go, Sony, Microsoft, and Ninendo have their studios produce exclusive content to try and draw in customers. To do this the games in general need to try to be above and beyond what is out on other consoles, exclusives or multi plat. Microsoft has been getting out of this as they are focusing on pushing the XBox/PC platform together instead of trying to separate the two, and I appreciate that. But some of the greatest, and most important games I've played have been Sony exclusives. There are some seriously great Multi Plat games, but without the competition I think many developers would go the way of EA and just shoot for gaining the greatest buck for least effort.

PC is in and interesting spot right now with so many games coming out as Early Access. There are some amazing PC games don't get me wrong, but there are issues there as well that may be compounded if the console scene went away. Also there are a lot of people who simply don't have the technical know how to properly build a workable PC that would compete with the price point of a console. A console gives the ease of mind of plug and play, some people just don't know the joy of picking out your hardware and watching it all come together.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby eishiya » January 12th, 2018, 11:30 am

As I said in my first post in this thread, my issue with consoles is they're becoming too much like PCs. Less plug-and-play, less "XBox or PS4?" and more "which version of which console is best for my needs and budget?" Shopping for consoles is getting closer to shopping for gaming PCs (just still cheaper for a prebuilt machine, at least), and the hassle of getting a new game to run is comparable to (and sometimes worse than) running a new game on PC. I want them to go back to being plug-and-play, pop-the-disc-in-and-it-just-works. None of this forced online, can't play your new game until you update business. I want consoles to stay, but I want them to keep their benefits instead of sacrificing them.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby HalfAssedChaos » January 12th, 2018, 12:05 pm

eishiya wrote:As I said in my first post in this thread, my issue with consoles is they're becoming too much like PCs. Less plug-and-play, less "XBox or PS4?" and more "which version of which console is best for my needs and budget?" Shopping for consoles is getting closer to shopping for gaming PCs (just still cheaper for a prebuilt machine, at least), and the hassle of getting a new game to run is comparable to (and sometimes worse than) running a new game on PC. I want them to go back to being plug-and-play, pop-the-disc-in-and-it-just-works. None of this forced online, can't play your new game until you update business. I want consoles to stay, but I want them to keep their benefits instead of sacrificing them.


Yeah I can agree with this. But I have to chalk it up to times changing and the needs of games being much greater. It can be a big annoyance though, and I still don't like it when single player games force me to be connected online to play them. That's dumb and will always be dumb.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby LemPem » May 24th, 2018, 1:53 am

The problem I have with the exclusive deal is that it puts the consumer in a tough spot... if you want buy a game (let's say Uncharted 4) and you don't have a ps4, you have to pay 50$ + 500$ to be able to enjoy the game. No one would really pay 550$ for just a game because that's absurd, still a lot of people do because if they want to play the game there's really no other choice. I know that buying the products is a choice and spending money on what you want is your own choice/responsibility. I'm just saying that these games get ridiculously pricey just because they are exclusive to a very expensive console. (Imagined if you bought every single console as they released in order to play every game you want.)
I have maybe 30-ish games on my computer but I can count my ps3 and ps4 games on my two hands. I think the exclusive games are quite interesting titles like Last of Us, Until Dawn etc, but I really just see it as Sony trying to monopoly/force the costumers to buy their consoles...
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby AltCat » May 24th, 2018, 9:59 am

There may be some working points but mostly a lot of stretches and fence guarding here I think.

Loading and install? Well, maybe some still suffer the traumas of that hours long GT install on PS3 or swapping discs on the few XB games that had those. But there will be nothing like it in future, and was still better than the past, having nothing to install to, anyway.

Consoles are simpler than ever to connect and get going. It is still perfectly possible to just shove a disc in and play. If, and only if, it is connected to a network will it maybe ask to update. And even so, it doesn't really have to do that just to play a game anyway.

No, not even for Assassins Creed.. 8-)


MK_Wizard wrote:When my family has our NES and SNES, those consoles lasted for years and people concentrated on making great games. Now, consoles have become like iPhones; they're status symbols. And because they are coming out so fast, they're coming out too early and aren't that great. I mean, think the Wii-U.


Yes, the WiiU failed and died. That happened before too, many times. In fact, that is the most common thing to happen to a new console. Thing is though, they usually fail so fast and so completely few ever hears about them. One can see this as an annoying problem that some in one way or another will of course pay for, or it can be seen as a natural part of evolution.

The life expectancy on an average though, has it really become shorter? I think it the other way around, generations just seem to last longer by every shift. It didn't take long from the NES until the Megadrive was there to make it look antiquated. And how expensive every shift was. The machine alone even for what little it was rattling inside cost a leg, and then every game cost an arm. I think the problem here is something I posted in another topic, that is remembering things in "kid time" instead of actual time. Now you are an adult and time flies by, no more waiting 3 years for every christmas, instead summer is over in a month? And it's christmas 2 times a year. What the.. :shock:


LemPem wrote:The problem I have with the exclusive deal is that it puts the consumer in a tough spot... if you want buy a game (let's say Uncharted 4) and you don't have a ps4, you have to pay 50$ + 500$ to be able to enjoy the game. No one would really pay 550$ for just a game because that's absurd, still a lot of people do because if they want to play the game there's really no other choice. I know that buying the products is a choice and spending money on what you want is your own choice/responsibility. I'm just saying that these games get ridiculously pricey just because they are exclusive to a very expensive console. (Imagined if you bought every single console as they released in order to play every game you want.)
I have maybe 30-ish games on my computer but I can count my ps3 and ps4 games on my two hands. I think the exclusive games are quite interesting titles like Last of Us, Until Dawn etc, but I really just see it as Sony trying to monopoly/force the costumers to buy their consoles...



https://www.ngdevdirect.com/index.php?cPath=21_31&osCsid=2b1f26ccbf36bafa2b8e5dc1f5c0bcbb Some people would even literary pay the cost of a PS4 for a game. ;) So I guess some do for an actual PS4 too. But what most probably buy into is not a single game, but the promise of an environment, which probably has more games of similar qualities and quality. That is what conole manufacturers sell, a promise of future greater things.

Most usually can not afford to get every game they might feel like playing anyway. So it being further gated in somewhere there are still too many to play sure sounds like one pretty good definition of first world problems.

Another thing also is most vocal complainers about it on one platform are perfectly happy being fenced in someplace else, it just need be one suiting their convenience and preferences best. Because if looking at it objectively, Windows too is a platform, and there sure been no short list of things both passively and actively done to fence users into that one both for work and pleasure. There really has been so much fencing done it eventually included the very concept of "PC" for most to not even realise it was fenced in.

So there is then a commonly falsely based over belief in that if only things were different I would have all the things I like on the thing I use. That would be very unlikely as it pretty much contradicts everything else that ever happened before in history, regarding all matters really. The most probable outcome of such beautiful one world dreams would be far less and simpler games, on one single much worse system.
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Re: I love video games, but consoles....

Postby LemPem » May 24th, 2018, 5:56 pm

Haha wow! That is a ridicolous amount of money for one game! x)

I guess it just kinda bums me out when I have to pay for a console for one game I really want and then hope there are a few more that'll interest me before they release the next console. ^^'

I feel like video games are a bit of an elitism thing and mostly because companies not releasing stuff over multiple platforms. I typically feel like I can't afford a game because it's for a platform I don't own. 40$ and 600$ is a great difference. And I'm definitely not saying everyone should play every game ever made, like, where would you ever find the time? x) but it would be nice if people could play a handful of games without also having to own an equal amount of consoles.

I'd rather see games being released on a few platforms, not a single system that everyone must own. Say, Playstation or Xbox and then PC (every operative system) so as many as possible has the chance to enjoy it. So, rather multiple platforms instead of exclusive games for one platform only. I just wish everyone would be able to enjoy the games they want even if they can't afford multiple consoles. ^^'
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