Zelda General

Re: Zelda General

Postby Seven Rain » January 13th, 2012, 11:44 pm

I enjoy both.
*Shrug*

In fact, I wish they would've kept making the portable games 2D instead of the graphics they went with in PH and ST.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Afrohawkman » January 13th, 2012, 11:50 pm

Crystalbear wrote:Link's Awakening is supposed to have that surprising twist, I think that's what really got a lot of people into it. The twist, along with the game's ending, made for a powerful impact. Though it obviously didn't have the same effect on you.

LA is more of a game that focuses more on the emotions that reality versus dream brings upon, and focuses on morals. There were actually players who argued amongst themselves whether to beat the game or not because they had grown so attached to its world and people. In that sense, LA is very different from most titles. And maybe that's one of the reasons why I love it so much, especially since it is more story-driven than anything else in the series, IMO. It's also one of the first games in the series that had character development to a degree.

Okay, um. I'm going to level with you. While I agree that making a game that actually emotionally forces a player to stop playing a game just so they don't hurt the lives of the friends they hold near and dear in the game is pretty good writing, games should never force a player to stop playing a game. If a game is legitimately frightening to the point that some people can't actually handle it and that was its intended purpose (*cough* Amnesia *cough*) then yes, that's perfectly okay (though they're losing more players that way in my opinion anyway). But this is a Zelda game. I have never played a Zelda game, or any Nintendo game really, where I had to stop playing because beating the game was actually worse for everybody else. That is NOT good writing. That's a horrible, horrible twist and a horrible thing to do to the player, to make them KILL EVERYONE COOL.

I love it when a game allows me to choose how I beat the game based on my own morals. I hate it when a game presents you with a choice to either beat the game and kill everyone or don't and not beat the game. I should be beating the game in there somewhere, that's kind of the point of playing a game.

Also, on that character development there, help me out with that. I honestly didn't pay enough attention to really see anything other than Link and Marin and even then it wasn't deep character development.

Crystalbear wrote:Lastly, the monsters don't really attack the towns in other Zelda games either. =P

That is exactly my point. Why couldn't Link just leave well enough alone? If no one was in any immediate danger, why couldn't he just stay with Marin and live peacefully? Because it's a Zelda game that's why. This isn't some Harvest Moon game here, Link is here to kick ass, destroy the ancient evil and save lives, not kick ass and destroy fucking islands of people he actually likes or do absolutely nothing and live NOT kicking any ass. How in the world is that good writing for a Zelda game? At least in Ocarina of Time, they split the timeline so Link doesn't make the stupid mistake of opening the Sacred Realm so Ganon doesn't get the Triforce. In this, NOPE. EVERYBODY DIES.

Seven Rain wrote:Another thing is even though you were late to the party and have seen more interesting stuff in later games, it did bring some unique stuff to the Zelda series. The first inclusion of Roc's Feather, the platforming elements, the cool cross-overs, the temporary power-ups dropped by enemies, etc.

Hope that legitimately helps. I won't go into the subjective stuff, just trying to throw in my two cents on it's popularity.

It...helps a little. I mean Adventure of Link created jumping in the first place and I just recently learned to love and hate that game (I feel the same way about that as I do Battletoads. Okay not really. Battletoads is way fucking harder). That's really the only thing I'd take out of Link's Awakening, jumping. That's about it. Temporary power-ups got really fucking annoying after a while. You either found none for hours at a time or 20 of 'em in a minute and the music for them was just awful. Just. Awful.

Crystalbear wrote:Edit: Oh I just remembered. LA actually helped to develop OoT. They stated before that if LA didn't exist or come earlier, OoT wouldn't be the same game we all know today. Though not many know that sadly...

As much as I'm glad LA existed then as it did create some precedents and was a stepping stool for OoT, that doesn't make it any better. If I walked up to you and smacked you in the face and you decided to take up karate and that became so useful over the years for you, am I any better for walking up to you and smacking you in the face? No. Was it a good thing that I did? Well, that's entirely subjective.

EDIT: That is an extremely bad analogy now that I look at it but I can't think of anything better.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Crystalbear » January 13th, 2012, 11:57 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:
Crystalbear wrote:Link's Awakening is supposed to have that surprising twist, I think that's what really got a lot of people into it. The twist, along with the game's ending, made for a powerful impact. Though it obviously didn't have the same effect on you.

LA is more of a game that focuses more on the emotions that reality versus dream brings upon, and focuses on morals. There were actually players who argued amongst themselves whether to beat the game or not because they had grown so attached to its world and people. In that sense, LA is very different from most titles. And maybe that's one of the reasons why I love it so much, especially since it is more story-driven than anything else in the series, IMO. It's also one of the first games in the series that had character development to a degree.

Okay, um. I'm going to level with you. While I agree that making a game that actually emotionally forces a player to stop playing a game just so they don't hurt the lives of the friends they hold near and dear in the game is pretty good writing, games should never force a player to stop playing a game. If a game is legitimately frightening to the point that some people can't actually handle it and that was its intended purpose (*cough* Amnesia *cough*) then yes, that's perfectly okay (though they're losing more players that way in my opinion anyway). But this is a Zelda game. I have never played a Zelda game, or any Nintendo game really, where I had to stop playing because beating the game was actually worse for everybody else. That is NOT good writing. That's a horrible, horrible twist and a horrible thing to do to the player, to make them KILL EVERYONE COOL.


Cool story bro.

In all seriousness, can't please everyone then. I don't care if you don't like the game, or at least the writing, but others did like the game and the writing. I personally thought that the writing, with its morals and all, was beautiful, especially since I no longer consider Link an avatar but rather his own person. But my point is, others liked the game, learn to accept that and move on.

Edit: Oh and the people in the island cannot be "killed" because they were always dreams to begin with. Dreams can't be killed, they merely end, and then remain in one's memories. Link at least has those fond memories, it's better than erasing all of those memories.

Also, on that character development there, help me out with that. I honestly didn't pay enough attention to really see anything other than Link and Marin and even then it wasn't deep character development.

That's why I said "to a degree". It did still have more development than ALttP though.

Crystalbear wrote:Edit: Oh I just remembered. LA actually helped to develop OoT. They stated before that if LA didn't exist or come earlier, OoT wouldn't be the same game we all know today. Though not many know that sadly...

As much as I'm glad LA existed then as it did create some precedents and was a stepping stool for OoT, that doesn't make it any better. If I walked up to you and smacked you in the face and you decided to take up karate and that became so useful over the years for you, am I any better for walking up to you and smacking you in the face? No. Was it a good thing that I did? Well, that's entirely subjective.


*Imagines a OoT that didn't have LA to look for inspiration...* Hmm... Well, OoT certainly does not look very epic when viewed in that light.

And what else was I gonna mention?... Oh that's right,

Move on.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby ApaFox » January 14th, 2012, 12:29 am

Aww, looks like I missed an entire conversation on personal preferences and deep held interpretations of portable Zelda games.

Why does the good stuff always happen when I'm not around.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Afrohawkman » January 14th, 2012, 1:22 am

It's still going on if you wish to contribute. I'd personally love to hear some more stories about Link's Awakening from some different people so I can get a better perspective on this.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Crystalbear » January 14th, 2012, 12:15 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:It's still going on if you wish to contribute. I'd personally love to hear some more stories about Link's Awakening from some different people so I can get a better perspective on this.


If you really want to get more opinions, then I would just suggest that you find a Zelda forum and ask there. It's probably better that way because not all of us here play Zelda or have played LA.

Oh and about the whole "This game does not contribute to the series at all because the world is a dream world", well, you could argue that Majora's Mask and Phantom Hourglass also do not contribute to the series for that same reason. In fact, I consider PH to be a clone of LA and I'm hearing no complaints on it.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby RyoSoulreaper » January 14th, 2012, 2:11 pm

ApaFox wrote:Aww, looks like I missed an entire conversation on personal preferences and deep held interpretations of portable Zelda games.

Why does the good stuff always happen when I'm not around.

Me and you both man.

Afrohawkman wrote:It's still going on if you wish to contribute. I'd personally love to hear some more stories about Link's Awakening from some different people so I can get a better perspective on this.

Oh well, then.....

I can see why it's a good game, LA. Hell, it was my first Zelda exposure when I was young and had an old school brick of a Gameboy. So it's still a game I hold dearly but, the build up kinda falls short for me. Kinda like, "Oh hell yeah, I'm gonna free that big ass fish, go back home, and save all these awesome people!"*beats game*"Hold up......It was a DREAM? Damn it I liked Marin!"

That was uncool.

As for 2D Vs. 3D I played and beat 4 2D titles before I managed to play a 3D title long enough to love it.
Probably because my first 3D game was Majora's Mask and at 7 that shit was horrifying. I was too much of a pussy to play it.
I like the 3D games. Hell my top 2 Zelda's are 3D titles but 2D games are the shit.

EDIT: PH contributed. Kinda......Like the Island did exist, he still had the hourglass but then again, At the end of MM it's assumed he kept all the stuff he had gotten during the game too.....
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Crystalbear » January 14th, 2012, 2:50 pm

The only thing that PH contributed was giving Link the hourglass, which he most likely never uses again, and turning Lineback into reality. Everything else was lost.

If I had to give a reason of what LA did contribute though... It says in the game manual that Link left sailing for self-training and enlightenment, which is also connected to the state of mind. Perhaps the whole dream world could have also served as a final test to Link, to mentally train him and become an overall better person as a hero, because one cannot cling to the state of dreaming forever, and that the real world and the real Wind Fish still needed him.

It's not just the Wind Fish that Link awakened, he awakened himself. You could say he's a man now.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby RyoSoulreaper » January 14th, 2012, 3:34 pm

I still hold in belief that LA is set after OoA and OoS. Like he left there on a boat and it was never said he actually made it back at the end.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Crystalbear » January 14th, 2012, 4:43 pm

RyoSoulreaper wrote:I still hold in belief that LA is set after OoA and OoS. Like he left there on a boat and it was never said he actually made it back at the end.


That was confirmed in Hyrule Historia.

In fact, it seemed to indicate that Link in ALttP, OoX and LA are all the same...

Also, Nintendo purposely leaves endings open. For all we know, maybe Link did find his way back home to Hyrule. The Wind Fish was there in the ending, maybe he would have signaled for help or something. The rest is kinda up to us to decide.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Afrohawkman » January 14th, 2012, 11:13 pm

Crystalbear wrote:It's not just the Wind Fish that Link awakened, he awakened himself. You could say he's a man now.

Link was always a man. Just look at those tights. Only a true man could kick that much ass and still pull those off.

Not the tights, the actual look.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Seven Rain » January 14th, 2012, 11:48 pm

Afrohawkman wrote:Link was always a man.

There's no coming of age when you're born a pimp. It comes naturally.
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Crystalbear » January 15th, 2012, 3:08 am

Could you guys actually take this seriously?
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Seven Rain » January 15th, 2012, 1:21 pm

Can't speak for these guys but I can't be serious all the time, sorry. :C
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Re: Zelda General

Postby Afrohawkman » January 15th, 2012, 2:37 pm

Crystalbear wrote:Could you guys actually take this seriously?

Well if you put it that way...

I was entirely serious. Link, before Link's Awakening, was already a man. He's always been a man. Even in the games where he's a little kid, he still has what it takes to step up, use that courage, go against all odds and take on the world all by himself. And he succeeds. He even conquered the demons inside of himself in Adventure of Link, which came before Link's Awakening. If what you said is true about the Link between 1, 2 and LA all being the same Link, I stand by my statement; He was always a man.
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