Critique the above person's latest comic page

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Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Antitime » September 5th, 2011, 2:47 pm

Forgive me if this would be better suited to creative corner, this was inspired by the 'what do and don't you like about the above person's comic' threads. I was just thinking that we could make a game out of getting and giving critique. that way people will have some extra feedback before they post up a new page.

Rules:
-critique the latest page posted.
-if you don't have a new page but want to offer critique anyway, go on ahead. The next peson will also critique the picture above yours, so on and so fourth until someone posts a new page.
-if someone gives unhelpful critique, do your best to make up for them and critique the person jipped as well. That being said;
-try to be constructive. Be honest, let people know their strengths and weaknesses, and try to say more than just 'I like it. The lines are nice.' or something like that.
-if you are no prepared to take critique, do not post your image.

Blank'd gave a very helpful tip- if you want to provide a context for your drawing, i.e what they are doing, that is completely encouraged and may help your critique!

I think that's pretty simple. I'll post up an image to start. the only thing I want to note is I'm still working on the butterflies in the last panel.
Spoiler! :
Image
Last edited by Antitime on September 5th, 2011, 5:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby gutache » September 5th, 2011, 5:43 pm

In the last panel, the girl's right leg is thinner than the left, just enough to make it look off. I'd like it if her bust was a little smaller, because it looks kind of awkward, but maybe this is the intention with the character design. In the first panel, the flowers could be a little more detailed, at least, I think so.

Spoiler! :
Image


There are no colors or tones but this is because my writer is coloring the page.
Last edited by gutache on September 5th, 2011, 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Guest » September 5th, 2011, 5:45 pm

Well the lastest panel doesn't introduce a story. The banner is bare. But I do like the title of said comic.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby blankd » September 5th, 2011, 5:49 pm

Antitime wrote:
Spoiler! :
Image
Overall: The anatomy seems a bit stiff, in the case of the dude this could be intentional and make sense but for the girl it seems a bit unnatural, it's mainly the arms (stiffness) that stick out the most. However I find the scene itself fairly neat in terms of the surreal imagery, so good job on that (though I'm not sure what's going on, but I get the feeling that is part of the point).

Panel 1: The male's ribcage sticks out and seems to be unnaturally "square" rather than curved as a ribcage should be. I am also unsure of what the extra bits are (along the shoulders, hips, legs, etc.) but it feels like they should conform to his form more (mainly the ones along the collarbone and the area around the hips). The dissolving effect is conveyed very well for a pulled out shot.

The foreground elements came out quite well and are a fairly smart compositional move- however the dandelion seeds' puff outlines' could be lighter/thinner to convey their puffy attributes, alternatively perhaps some quick strokes in PS could add some of that "white fluff" without losing the lines.

Panel 2-4: The persistent tone(?) in the background can come of as distracting because of how complex and uniform it is, I'd think darkening it or implying a more ambiguous form might carry it better as a background element. (If you drew all of those, jesus that's some nice ink.) The butterflies going across also convey motion well but they seem to have a lot of "top down"/front view which hinders some of the implied free-flying (they seem more interested in showing their wings to the viewer rather than simply flying).

As for the people, for the dude his face marking seems to be at odds with the curvature of his face, but given the turn of the marking, the direction of the marking + showing the curve of the face can be difficult to convey. The girl's seems to lack a chin or enough space for her ear- fixing either one should fix the problem of the other.

Panel 5: The girl's pose seems a bit strange, fixing the position of the legs should fix the overall "issue" with the pose. Also I'm unsure if which is the more accurate version but she seems to have some inconsistencies with her clothing; in panel 1 she has two belts, panel 5 she has one; in panel 1 the clothing on her thighs are of a different texture than panel 5.

The background, while minimal is fine for the most part as it draws more attention to the girl, however the grass that is closer to the viewer seems strangely rendered, I'm not sure what to suggest since the overall style seems to be surreal, but the grass blades seem haphazard compared to everything else on the page.

I won't make much comment on the butterflies since you mentioned they are still being worked on, but I'm unsure of what you're going to add to them; they seem finished for the most part?

Anyway, once again, overall nice details, I think the aspect I liked most are the butterflies.


(As an aside, a minor critique for the thread, it might be helpful to note in the OP that posters are encouraged to provide a context if one is needed of the contents of the page. Other than that I like the idea of this thread since it has the potential to be supremely helpful.)

-----
EDIT:
gutache wrote:
Spoiler! :
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The biggest issue present appears to be the shaky lines, have more confidence in your strokes!

Another is that even though it is heavily stylized, the necks seem just a little too long for their bodies, try shortening them and see how it improves the art.

Lastly it seems like there's an awful lot of "front view" and while you're probably doing a gag comic (and that is fine), try mixing up some of the angles for more expression and possibly better comedic effect.

Other than that I liked the effect in panel 4, I don't know if it's intentional or not but it does look like there is some kind of blotty monster making that sound (it seems so cute to me 83)




My latest page should anyone want to write up a critique for it. No context is really needed aside from that the blue tones/lines are not typical of normal pages and for story purposes, cannot be changed.
Spoiler! :
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Last edited by blankd on September 5th, 2011, 8:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Antitime » September 5th, 2011, 5:52 pm

gutache wrote:I don't have any pages up, but I'd still like to help out although I am not nearly as talented.
In the last panel, the girl's right leg is thinner than the left, just enough to make it look off. I'd like it if her bust was a little smaller, because it looks kind of awkward, but maybe this is the intention with the character design. In the first panel, the flowers could be a little more detailed, at least, I think so.

EDIT: Sorry! Just realized they weren't exactly flowers! Nevermind. ;u;
Spoiler! :
Image

No, thank you very much, that's helpful! And if they look like flowers I should probably stylize them less. agreed with the bust. she's supposed to be busty but not that much.

Blank'd: Thanks so much, that was very helpful!
I will take all of your advice into account for this page!

As for Blank'ds page...
While the foundations and anatomy of the drawing are great, I feel that the characters and the way they're drawn is very reliant on shape and outline, lending them to a somewhat boxy or stiff appearance. The drawing of the wagon gives me a similar impression- almost as if it's unfinished and waiting for another layer of rendering. I think it's because the lines are too 'perfect,' and their gestures somewhat posy. This is, however, all my opinion, so take it as you may.
Another thing is, I don't really understand the texture of the animal pulling the wagon. Is it armored? is that waves of fur? once again, I think a tiny increase in detail would help. Also it's pose looks like it's stiff and hopping along happilly, instead of straining to pull them. It looks very cute though, not sure if that's what you were going for or not.
Overall, I like that you aren't afraid of line-weights, and that you're experimenting with color on this page. I have no complaints about the anatomy really, but the poses look almost...well...posed. And I'm worried that there's a somewhat unfinished look to it. Despite those complaints I think this is a very great page.


gustache- I agree with everything blank'd said. I understand that the repeated poses and expressions are for comedic 'gag strip' purposes, but I think that it would make you stand out if you did draw things at other angles and poses.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby paintedmare » September 5th, 2011, 7:00 pm

blankd: I really can't add much, because admittedly I love your style and the way you use your line weights.
The only critiques I have are really nitpicky things; in the last panel, Gerif's chin seems to be a little left-of-center of the middle of his eyebrows, and there's more space between the side of his head and one eye than there is the other, like his face kind of .. leans to the right, if that makes sense. It's slight-- I feel like it would become more apparent if you mirrored the image. I can't say too much here since god knows I'm guilty of this sometimes too. >.>

The other minor things are that, as rocky as the terrain is, I would probably want a little more clearance on the bottom of that cart. With the short wheels and low-riding bottom, it would be easy to get hung up on just about everything (try driving a TransAm over a speedbump sometime, you will understand XD). Also, this is coming from someone who works with horses, and I don't know how well-trained Stumpy is (or if that disc in Gerif's hand is to handle Stumpy, ignore the following), but I wouldn't want to drive anywhere without reins-- even the most well domesticated, docile animal can get spooked into a blind flight mode, and without reins, they're going to either hang on and hope he stops or bail out.

I hope these aren't too presumptuous or OCD. :oops:

Would anyone mind critiquing not my most recently posted page, but my most recently completed page? Here it is, there's some very modest male nudity (no bits or butts, everything is covered), but in case people were leery of that kind of thing, I thought I'd warn you.

Spoiler! :
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A note on the coloring style; it is intended to be loose and light, not highly realistic but not cel-shaded either. Something like a loose take on markers crossed with watercolor.

Thank you in advance!
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Asj » September 5th, 2011, 9:15 pm

I noticed this thread before anyone had replied to it, and I started thinking about it a few minutes ago, and how maybe it'd be nice if there were more guidelines about how and what to critique - but now it seems like there's some nice critiques, so I guess not everyone's as stupid as me. ^_^" (tries looking for hints in the above posts)

It has a sketchy feel to me, which I like, and the coloring looks a little washed out or faded, which I think you were going for based on what you said about it. It might just be me, but that has a kind'a happy or easy feeling to me. I think the margin color helps with that impression. Like a fond memory or something.
Their faces are really nice. Their expressions look so readable. The last panel is totally different from the rest of the page, though (not only art-wise, but the whole mood feels different to me), and is kind of jostling to me (I think the blond just ruined the mood there, didn't he?). I also really like how their hair looks and lies so naturally in the first panel.
You seem to know anatomy well (or at least, it looks good to me, and nothing seems wrong with it to me).
My favorite panel would be the top one. It seems the most detailed to me and like more attention was spent on that one than the others. My least favorite would be the last panel, but that's just my personal taste.
...I can't really think of anything that seems wrong... Well, there is that *Wince* thing, where I'm not sure if it's really needed or not, since his expression looks painful. (edit) Oh, and looking closer at the bg, I can't tell what angle I'm looking at between the first and second panels. First panel, I see no headboard. Second panel, I see no blond.

Spoiler! :
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It's almost three months old, but it's my newest page. I also knew that I had a couple issues with depicting actions, even before finishing it, but this was the closest I could seem to get. (I think I'm most interested in how easy it is to tell what's happening, or tips for the future, by the way)
My fancomic looks sooo bad compared to some of these. ^_^"
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Antitime » September 5th, 2011, 9:42 pm

Asj:

Since this is a fancomic, I assume you're trying to somewhat mimic Kubo's style. One of the things I noticed was in the first three panels, he looks compressed, not elogated enough, which makes for a 'chubby' effect. His lack of defined musculature adds to this. this is lost, however in the last two panels, where he looks much thinner and more natural. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) it's because you had a better refference for those panels, which is key- when you are still learning, it's important to refference and practice anatomy until your hands hurt. And draw from life, too, not just manga, because then you can develop a unique style from the basics.
In terms of shading, I do like that you included an actual background with a gradient effect, but I find that it's still too simple and doesn't give you enough to look at next to the detailed fgure. The ripping motion in the first panel is also a bit awkward, and varying the thickness of the tear to make it less 'clean' might help with that.
Try to make each panel important and interesting, like a work of art on its own, that will help you want to spend more time on the piece.
Overall, it's not bad, but I think learning to draw from life would really help you a lot! That way, you can do what you want with your style- even if that means drawing like the artist you admire.

here's an update of my page!
Spoiler! :
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I was limited in what I could fix because I hadn't saved the layered version. For those of you who want to know what's happening, she just cut him, he freaked out, he dispersed into a flock of butterflies and she's looking at them in confusion/annoyance.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby blankd » September 5th, 2011, 9:56 pm

@antitime
I'll work on drawing more fluidly, I'm a bit confused by what you mean "another layer of rendering" though, would you mind clarifying? I would also like clarification on what you mean by posed poses ?_? Do you mean they look unnatural?

(Also yes the creature is armored, no it is having a very easy time pulling the cart and yes it is cute 8V.)

@paintedmare
That's very interesting I didn't know you worked with horses! (That would probably explain why your comic has such nice horses!) And don't fret about the comments, they are quite welcome (that is what the thread is for after all!)

Anyway I edited the cart as it was indeed too low and adjusted Gerif's face to be a bit more proper :)

(As for animal/Stumpy handling: I referred more to elephants than horses for their movement, temperament and handling (since the weight/overall build category suited her species more), Gerif is also much like a less stabby version of what a Mahout is. Reins do exist, but Gerif (as a person) doesn't really use them, should Stumpy freak out it is up to him to figure out how to regain control of her- regardless, yes what he is doing IS very dangerous/unsafe.)
------
Now for your page 8O:
paintedmare wrote:
Spoiler! :
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I personally like the water-colory look but you might want to be careful with some of your stroke order as it can create a muddy effect (it's kind of an overall thing in little places), an example of this is the first panel under his arm/the armpit area, as it gets closer to the bed it should have "less" streaks and more of a "solid" kind of shading like with the curtains in the back of that panel. It's something that you can easily just practice and get better with in time so don't worry too much about it.

The 2nd panel seems to have the most issues in terms of anatomy, his chest doesn't seem to jell with how his abdomen is bending and his forearm seems to have the elbow pointing "forward" rather than "back". The knees are what need the most attention though, knees are an utter pain to make look right much less look nice, there isn't anything specific I can really suggest aside from taking a moment to try and break it down, I wish you the best of luck, because knees. :lol:

The last panel is more of a preference but I think it'd be better if he didn't have the catmouth... or maybe if he got his nose back, up to you really.
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Asj wrote:
Spoiler! :
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(I tried to avoid repeats)
The most immediate thing to me is not the art but the SFX = action thing, don't do it! It can ruin/weaken your comic! Finding proper SFX is hard but "verb" sounds can be worse than not having SFX at all.

Now for the art, it's very boxy in that nothing really has volume and appears as though he doesn't have anything beneath his skin (no muscles, fat, etc.). Practicing some more foundation should fix that as well as the other issues with the limbs/fingers and such.

In regards to clothing folds, panel 3 stands out the most with how the pants stretch and crease, studying some fabrics will help conquer this problem.

As for backgrounds, varying up the trees is a good way to make it look nicer and more like trees (they're all uniform), this too is just some hard "observe and draw" stuff, but don't worry, you can do it! It's also really hard to see your grass so drawing them darker or more treatment in PS (or something similar) will help you out.

On the positive side the action is fairly easy to follow, so keep at it and you'll be fine.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Antitime » September 5th, 2011, 10:20 pm

blankd wrote:@antitime
I'll work on drawing more fluidly, I'm a bit confused by what you mean "another layer of rendering" though, would you mind clarifying? I would also like clarification on what you mean by posed poses ?_? Do you mean they look unnatural?

(Also yes the creature is armored, no it is having a very easy time pulling the cart and yes it is cute 8V.)

Sorry, I'm so bad at explaining myself sometimes. The layer of rendering I'm talking about it completely optional. I think your style is fantastic, but that it could use more detail- like texture added to the wood and the ground, some elements of shininess to the armor of the animal (he is really cute, and now I can tell that it's armor, I was just unsure at first glance) things like cracks in the ground, rocks, leaves, wood grain, plants- things to make the picture more fleshed out. however, I could be completely wrong and it could come out looking like a clusterfuck, so take that with a grain of salt.
As for the poses, I feel like maybe it's less the poses and more of what I was saying about fluidity. Your outlines are very consisant and because of that there is an element of staticity to the lines, making the poses themselves also seem more static. however, this could totally be a style thing and is not really a big deal.
I had a boy in my class who drew similarly to you and he was fantastic, he was just slightly more detailed and more geared towards realism, I wish I had some samples of his art because I feel that it would convey what I'm trying to say better about the detail thing. If you want I could try to render out a panel myself to show you what I'm talking about, but then I'd feel like I was telling you how to draw.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby blankd » September 6th, 2011, 12:20 am

Antitime wrote:Sorry, I'm so bad at explaining myself sometimes. The layer of rendering I'm talking about it completely optional. I think your style is fantastic, but that it could use more detail- like texture added to the wood and the ground, some elements of shininess to the armor of the animal (he is really cute, and now I can tell that it's armor, I was just unsure at first glance) things like cracks in the ground, rocks, leaves, wood grain, plants- things to make the picture more fleshed out. however, I could be completely wrong and it could come out looking like a clusterfuck, so take that with a grain of salt.
As for the poses, I feel like maybe it's less the poses and more of what I was saying about fluidity. Your outlines are very consisant and because of that there is an element of staticity to the lines, making the poses themselves also seem more static. however, this could totally be a style thing and is not really a big deal.
I had a boy in my class who drew similarly to you and he was fantastic, he was just slightly more detailed and more geared towards realism, I wish I had some samples of his art because I feel that it would convey what I'm trying to say better about the detail thing. If you want I could try to render out a panel myself to show you what I'm talking about, but then I'd feel like I was telling you how to draw.

Up to you really, if you think it'll help convey your critique better you can.

Personally I don't want to occupy your time too much since you're probably busy with your own projects, if the guy you mentioned had a dA or something and could drop me a link, that'd be great. :)
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby paintedmare » September 6th, 2011, 8:03 am

@asj and blankd:

Thank you both for the helpful crits, it is always handy to have a fresh set of eyes and the things you mentioned are much more obvious now. :3 Blankd, haha, I know, knees, MAN. HOW DO THEY WORK. Thank you for the nice comment about my comic's horses-- they are surprisingly difficult to draw in a style that matches the comic. If I spent half as much time looking at human knees every day as I spend looking at my horses' knees, though, maybe I'd be getting somewhere. XD I do keep wanting to make a comic about my life at the racetrack, but one thing at a time. Thank you also for the elbow help-- it's like the lightbulb went off and I realize I've done that more than once and suddenly see how awkward it really looks. XD

I'm so glad two people told me the catface needs to go. I've been waffling over it and was really on the fence, but I'm grateful my misgivings aren't unfounded, haha. -trundles off for edits-
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby walkin_talkin_apocolyps » September 10th, 2011, 10:14 pm

HAY i like this game! ^,.^ ummm im kinda confused whut the last page posted here was tho... wuzzit antitimes? OK well heres antitimes critique!
i really like it! the black space is really super goodly mixed with the not black space and those butterflys look mega snazzy in the last pannel. i also like where hes trnin into butterflys. i was thinkin it would be cooler in color cuz everyone loves color BUT if it was in color then the white and black space wouldnt stand out so spiffily. also those patterns in the backround are coolio. the only thing i could think of is mebbe some shading or hilights would make it look kinda cooler :3

OK heres mine! :3
Spoiler! :
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i was thinkin it was kinda boring and cluttered lookin mebbe....
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Asj » September 11th, 2011, 5:57 pm

If this is the page...
Spoiler! :
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Then, I like the coloring/shading on the character. And how you have sound effects that aren't verbs (because I can't seem to do that. >_>" ) The narration boxes are kind'a neat and I think they match well with the page, but I'm not sure if the one on the first panel is the best placement. Since it's so low on the panel, some people may overlook it. You also have a lot of different perspectives on the page, so that's good. And I like how she's shown from the back in the first panel (although I'm not sure how to say why).
The thing that stands out most to me negatively would be the house in the last panel. The lineart stands out too much, in my opinion (the driveway has noticeably dark lineart, too). It makes it look fake to me. However, I like the outlines around the character (and the building in the second panel looks fine to me). The shingles on the roof in that last panel might look better if some were slightly different colors, too. As is, the house and driveway/garage look almost as though they're made of plastic. The clouds and smoke are 2D without any type of shading, but they seem to work somehow, while the zoomed out view of the house bothers me.


This is a page I'm trying to perfect now (so it'd be useful to know what would make it better).
Spoiler! :
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Before mentioning lack of muscle for this one, I've traced some of these images so many times that it could account for a little bit of that (here's an older version for comparison purposes http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/A ... 52prev.jpg ). Also, I didn't shade very much of it, because it's just a test page.
Is it easy enough to tell what's happening? T_T
Spoiler! :
Explanation: First panel, he's kicked into the air. 1st borderless panel, he skids across the ground, after hitting the ground hard. 2nd borderless panel, he's laying there. Small panels, he's going out of consciousness (each panel gets longer to show relative time between them) and the sound of footsteps are heard.
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Re: Critique the above person's latest comic page

Postby Guest » September 23rd, 2011, 1:53 am

I can tell what's happening, though if the last panel means he's passed out, I'd put another black box at the bottom, as though to say he isn't opening his eyes again. That might just be me, though.

I'm a little confused as to how he went flying after landing. It looks like he got kicked, then landed, then flew backwards. And the "waaah," kind of counteracts the look on his face in panel 1, as it looks like he got the wind knocked out of him. Also, I wouldn't use "step" as a sound effect. You could try "TP" or "SHF." I've seen both used in manga for walking, though if you don't like those, a brief search through some manga might give you some more examples.

That said, I like that you put drag marks around him, especially under his hand. And it's a definite improvement from the earlier version. The earlier one didn't show how far he flew (which can help determine how much that ought to hurt). :D

Heeeeeeeere's mine:

Spoiler! :
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