Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby mikemacdee » April 3rd, 2014, 7:26 pm

Fyrebrand wrote:2) They think that because the style is so distinct and recognizable, that means it's just a formula which produces cookie-cutter imagery.

In the hands of an art student -- especially high school -- that's exactly what it is, regardless of how "unique" they think their take on it is. I can see why it's frustrating when a teacher would give a drawing assignment and half of the students insist on drawing the exact same way.

I was the "manga" kid in my high school art class, and it concerned my teacher, because nobody else in class -- even the kids who were just there for credit -- was simply copying something else out of artistic insecurity.

Your list makes sense, though, don't get me wrong.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby xX-DragonFairy-Xx » April 4th, 2014, 2:34 pm

I think everyone has a "Favorite" way to draw, but superficial things such as eye shape, face shape, body shape, coloring, ect. Does not count as a "Personal" Style, and I think this term is being thrown around way too much now-a-days.

I can see why teachers encourage a "Manga" student to draw in other ways. It's kind of their job to encourage an art student to explore and attempt many different kinds of drawings. If you fall into certain habits, it's very hard to change or adjust to a real, working world. I'm an animation student, so more often than not, I'll be working on a team. I NEED to know how to change the way I draw to fit different atmospheres, writing styles, ect. ect. If I only know how to draw within (Current) Asian conventions, ALL of my work will read as having an Asian atmosphere, story, ect. if I need to get across in a couple of seconds a location, that one way of drawing will not work every simple time.

Comic and studio artist (I feel) need to know just as much the value of different "General" styles. a person's style isn't how they draw eyes. I believe a personal style is much more subtle than that. Some people draw edgier lines, some draw softer, rounder lines. People come to understand anatomy slightly differently from the next person. I think it's these things that make up a personal style. It's a teachers job to encourage a student to explore EVERY way to draw eyes, mouths, hair, because every single way has something unique and of learning value. You will find a favorite way to draw certain things, and hopefully it will draw from all cultures, all styles, and turn out to be something unique to you. I drew anime eyes EXCLUSIVELY for many many MANY years of my life, and didn't change that until about 2 years ago. it was when I changed it that I found I actually liked and was BETTER at drawing other kinds of eyes, and not just one kind, but quite a few others. I had NEVER been able to draw eyes I was proud of until then. If I had never broken from that comfort zone, I wouldn't have my art today. I wouldn't be NEAR as satisfied with my skills. I would still be struggling with eyes, spending too much time on faces and hair, and not have the more natural flow and freedom I feel like I have with my art.

So I don't think teachers are discriminating, but when they see a student draw in one way exclusively, and this happens more often with manga students, they feel the need to push for a wider variety of art in the student, to help them gain a better understanding of shape, volume, line, and so on.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby IsaacCraveFries » June 19th, 2014, 4:47 pm

I know what you are saying. I feel the difference between "Manga" style and "Western" style is in the story-telling, not the art. American artist like myself, can be inspired by the story-telling style of manga. Manga and Western tells a story differently. They have similar tools, but they also have different and unique tools the other doesn't.

For example, let's say a man was having a tense conversation with his spouse. The expressions, dialogue, text, effects etc..are tools that can be conveyed as either manga influence or western depending on the tool. It has nothing to do with the art.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Prine » August 26th, 2014, 12:20 am

Sometimes it feels like for a comic to be taken seriously in America, it has to adhere to "American" styles, while if you want a gigantic, devoted fan base, you have to go for more "Japanese" styles. I strive to go for a blend of the two styles, personally. Maybe. MAYBE, people aren't against Japanese styles because they're being racist-- maybe they're against Americans drawing in these styles because they view it as culturally appropriative? Just a thought.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby LuckyDucky » September 20th, 2014, 1:29 pm

It's not really racism nor discrimination; I seriously think the problem people see in anime/manga are the amateur ones with no knowledge of anatomy or anything and they don't even know what the face is made up of. To be fair though, you gotta start somewhere. I don't really care what people draw as long as they draw it GOOD and their plot is GOOD. it's this.... hm... It's like this. People who are everything Japan, think Japan is the coolest country in the world, says baka and kawaii in every other sentence, wants to live in Japan, wants to wear a Japanese school uniform, wants to find an anime gf/bf in Japan, etc. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with being a Weeaboo but you can sort of see how they can be looked down upon. See, the issue is with Japan Japanizing Americans like how Americans are Americanizing the rest of the world. Yes.

What I said was probably offensive hahaahaha.

Anyway, I don't think it matters. Some art teachers don't want you drawing anime because it's not original and isn't "art" and to be fair I myself don't consider anime or comics or any of that form in the "fine arts" category. Illustration yes, but not fine arts, unless you can really pull off something cool. Yuumei from deviantart draws anime influenced/style art, I'd call that art, fine art. But just a random anime girl looking cute, eh, I would call it just an illustration.

I believe another reason people don't like anime art, or anime for the matter is that everyone looks the same. Everyone's attractive.

I myself draw anime/anime influenced art style -gag i don't really want to call it that because I started off as trying to draw anime lol (like those bad ones lol), I always considered my style to be anime influenced. And then I tried to waver out of the stereotypical anime style once, but I still called it "anime style" just because it didn't fit anywhere else, and someone was like "this is western" (some real otaku dude who isn't japanese but see you can still be an otaku guy), then he told me his friend also also said it's not anime. I don't care about this really, because I'd rather not be labeled as anime or not anime but when he said it was western it ticked me off for some reason. It's like you gotta be either anime style or western. Either way I don't even know what counts as anime/western whatever anymore so I just draw what I like? It's not really an original art style but what the fuck ever? I'm still pretty sure it looks pretty damn anime and whatever but dude? You fucking call it western and I will be pissed off? I'm sure if an art teacher saw my art style he/she'd call it unoriginal or something? This is too much to think about? Yeah.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby toondoctor » June 9th, 2015, 6:19 am

I don't think that anyone should be worried about manga. It's the dominant genre here. Most comics on this site are manga-inspired. In fact,there everything else is lumped into the bland "American" box. So-called American/North American styles are so divergent lumping all of them together is kinda weird.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby cornelius7 » June 22nd, 2016, 12:39 pm

I would agree and say that this isnt racism this is just people being snooty and looking down on something popular. For a while comics were reguarded as inferior art forms as well. They werent even considered literature. Now adays the lines are being blurred. I just think that manga right now is a bit over exposed. There have been numerous anime that have crossed the gap that stands between anime enthusiasts and people who like compelling stories. So it really just depends. But I can see how it could be irritating to hear someone tell you to "draw American" lol. That sounds so stupid like what does that even mean
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby largominus2014 » June 22nd, 2016, 12:51 pm

I personally think if you are into a style because you appreciate it, that style will get integrated into your own style in one way or another. I have have manga influences because I like the way the artists are strait to the point. Their line work is clean and precise and they have a great way of establishing scenes in their panels. So of course over time my art began to get influenced by manga. But the same can be said for the influences that I gained from my uncle William Stout and friends of his like Bernie Wrightson and Frank Frazetta as I was growing up. I think all artists are influenced by others that they appreciate and that's where your unique style comes from. There's nothing racists about style, their is opinionated people who believe that their views are the correct views but in the end its really what makes the artist happy, not the criticism of others. Keep doing what you enjoy and a following of like minded readers/viewers will gather. If I did my art to try and make 100% of the audience happy, I would never finish anything.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Darksh1ne » August 28th, 2017, 3:53 am

Think. Would you tell a Japanese man that his art was inferior? Would you tell an American not to use that style just because they weren't born Japanese? Would you tell an Asian man to "draw Asian" and not "American"?

No, no and no. An art-style does not belong to a culture - it belongs to a person, but not in a way that you can claim it yours only. Anyone can be influenced by a certain style and use it as they like. It's what they do with it, what stories they tell that matters.

There exist great anime-inspired Western cartoons (Ex: The last Airbender), and vise versa (Ex: Cowboy Bebop), and it is a good thing. Don't ever listen to people who bring up "cultural appropriation" crap. It's a horrible, toxic idea and it needs to die out.
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby Indagold » September 22nd, 2017, 7:14 pm

racism and discrimination? That's silly. Bias? Probably. My experience going into to the art business you kinda have to replicate a lot of styles and be able to be diverse in what you produce. Teachers do get angry if you draw in a specific style that becomes overused and especially isn't profitable in a certain region aka America. Although 2D animation industry seems to be the field adopting anime inspired styles more than lets say comics (lets face it comics are a dying medium and professors i've had don't really know what they're doing anyway).

Honestly I prefer anime though after being a 3D major because man do professors suck the teat of pixar, dreamworks and disney. Anything that isn't mainstream they don't give a shit about. The saturation has gotten to the point even international 3D animation is indistinguishable from any other. Every CG movie out now looks the same, only difference is how much budget they can put into rendering it. Don't tell me how many times you thought a pixar movie was a disney movie or a sony movie was a warner bros because no one knows :|
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Re: Is it "Racist" or just plain discrimination?

Postby darkenergy » September 23rd, 2017, 12:29 pm

Darksh1ne wrote:There exist great anime-inspired Western cartoons (Ex: The last Airbender), and vise versa (Ex: Cowboy Bebop), and it is a good thing. Don't ever listen to people who bring up "cultural appropriation" crap. It's a horrible, toxic idea and it needs to die out.

Ok, people have misused the everloving fuck out of "cultural appropriation." What it really refers to is when a culture with a history of abusing another culture then takes that culture's products and profits off them to its own benefit.

Obviously there's grey area here, but we're talking more like, Caucasian Americans cribbing sacred Native designs and then selling them for profit without credit than like, an art studio ripping off anime.
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